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The Montage broke the Motif mode by becoming a "performance synth" rather than a workstation. It's like the difference between the Roland Jupiter-80 and Fantom. So comparing the Montage to the Kronos is *kind of* an apple and oranges thing.

There is a bit of a learning curve to the Montage, but once you wrap your head around the workflow, it's actually not that tough to make new performances from scratch. But if you're looking for an all-in-one, I don't think you can do better than the Kronos. It replaces a whole studio's worth of gear.

I don't use sequencing at all, only play live so for me it's a relevant comparison.

Kronos2ison wrote:I paid $2150 out the door new in box for the Kronos2 61 key and the Manager said it was discontinued that a new model was coming. I asked him if he was talking about a Kronos LS? He said no they just got orders from corporate to move them out with a 4-5 month deadline. So maybe next generation Kronos is coming summer Namm.

If that is correct then Musikmesse would be the ideal moment for KORG to introduce the KRONOS successor, +/-two months before its release.

Jan1 wrote:

Kronos2ison wrote:I paid $2150 out the door new in box for the Kronos2 61 key and the Manager said it was discontinued that a new model was coming. I asked him if he was talking about a Kronos LS? He said no they just got orders from corporate to move them out with a 4-5 month deadline. So maybe next generation Kronos is coming summer Namm.

If that is correct then Musikmesse would be the ideal moment for KORG to introduce the KRONOS successor, +/-two months before its release.

That would be a good venue for a new product announcement. April 8

The difference in the weighted action is simple - Yamaha Montage has BH keys (Balanced Hammer) where as each key has the exact same weight response. Korg Kronos has RH3 keys which are graded (progressive) action where as the low keys have a heavier feel/response than the higher keys to be more consistent to the feel of a real piano's hammers. It's all preference, but I prefer the progressive action, which is also found on Roland's PHA4 and PHA50 keys.

Kronos2ison wrote:I was at my local Guitar Center and played the Kronos and Montage. I don't get it. Everyone makes a big deal out of the Montage but to me it wasn't that great. I bought the 61 Kronos 2. It just came alive and I couldn't get enough. The Montage seemed very backward hard to figure out and had no sequencer or sampler. The Montage piano sounded over processed and unrealistic compared to the Kronos. I paid $2150 out the door new in box for the Kronos2 61 key and the Manager said it was discontinued that a new model was coming. I asked him if he was talking about a Kronos LS? He said no they just got orders from corporate to move them out with a 4-5 month deadline. So maybe next generation Kronos is coming summer Namm.

I just checked the web sites for Sweetwater and Guitar Center. I don't see any sort of price drop at either. I would think that corporate would be using their web sites to dump stock, too.

The issue may be more local.

The Montage isn't remotely a serious alternative to the Kronos. It's really far fetched to even compare both. It has some good sounds and some nice modulation functionality: that's about it. Else it is seriously misconstructed.

- The most crappy and annoying thing about the Montage is the midi implementation, heavily limiting cooperation with other keyboards: this synth is an island, just suited for separate use. As experienced users have pointed out, you already run into trouble with elementary setups, like trying to have a simple 4-part performance, with two parts split on the Montage, and two other parts played from an external keyboard: just try to get that going! With a Kronos (or most even ten year old keyboards) that would be zero problem.

- The Montage has very small sample space and no real onboard sampling functionality. You won't just get lots of commercial or user sounds into it, among them big high quality libraries at the same time, streamed from SSD, with full sampling functionality, like in the Kronos.

- The Montage has no midi/audio sequencer like the Kronos, which allows you to record ideas on the fly and to have full backing track functionality for certain kinds of gigs.

It's sonic flexibility, with sampled sounds plus an FM engine, is MUCH more limited than that of the Kronos.
- It has no VAs (the Kronos has three with different character), but just rather tame and lame sounding sampled synth sounds, besides some FM synth sounds (among the sampled ones lots of not seriously useable pseudo-EDM-sounds without the character and grit of real EDM sounds).
- It has no B3 engine, and despite a recent Leslie update it's still far from organ clone quality (including the updated Kronos CX3).
etc. etc.

Selling this Montage synth, with some nice sides and lots of heavy downsides, at the same price tag as a Kronos, that's just ridiculous from my view. If I had the choice between a great sounding all-in-one, multi-engine solution with full sampling, sequencing and master keyboard functionality like the Kronos, and this halfbaked concept of the Montage synth, does anyone think I would consider the latter even for a moment???

Despite being the brand new flagship synth from Yamaha, the Montage 8 (best selling Montage) is ranked at rank 11 in the actual Thomann workstation category (with the three Kronos versions ranked 1, 3 and 4), and in the synth category it's even worse, with the Montage versions ranked 50, 54 and 57. I think keyboarders have understood fast, what this synth delivers and what it does NOT deliver. It is nowhere near the Motif success, and it doesn't even offer full Motif functionality.

For me the biggest problem is the weight. You can't really gig with this unless you have the mind and body of a keyboard player from the 70's. Most of us have moved on from the B3 and Rhodes.

- The most crappy and annoying thing about the Montage is the midi implementation, heavily limiting cooperation with other keyboards: this synth is an island, just suited for separate use. As experienced users have pointed out, you already run into trouble with elementary setups, like trying to have a simple 4-part performance, with two parts split on the Montage, and two other parts played from an external keyboard: just try to get that going! With a Kronos (or most even ten year old keyboards) that would be zero problem.




I havent read about this too much this but pretty sure the Montage can do this but means using a blank template with all the midi setup done then creating all performances from that I would think. Would be interested in seeing any links to the issues with it?

theshinenz wrote:Would be interested in seeing any links to the issues with it?

Read ► this and ► this

EXer wrote:

theshinenz wrote:Would be interested in seeing any links to the issues with it?

Read ► this and ► this

I had previously read those threads as well as others but reviewed them again for fun. They reminded me why I said WTF were they thinking with the Montage.

While the Montage has some nice features as a standalone performance synth it just does not integrate well with anything else. The typical response is to change your workflow and all of your other hardware and software. It seems easy to integrate as single timbre tone generator but controlling it externally in multitimbral mode and taking advantage of the advanced features can't even be easily explained.

I have never played one and I keep wanting to like it but the more I hear about it, the more I want something else.

OK,

Those threads can be a little difficult to follow but if Phil has mentioned engineers Im guessing they are working on rectifying it.

For my situation i maybe able to work around it as the Roland FA sends/receives on all 16 channels therefore THEORETICALLY i should be able to get round the issues by creating a template on the FA08 that has all keyranges set from G9-G9 and volumes to 0, with channel switch on.

Im hoping this way it will send damper messages to the channels on the Montage which I want to it by turning the channel switches on or off on the Roland FA08, and possibly do the same with key ranges on the Montage etc to allow me to play locally and sounds from the external boards.

Fingers crossed anyway.

theshinenz wrote:Those threads can be a little difficult to follow but if Phil has mentioned engineers Im guessing they are working on rectifying it.

Phil has been continuously denying the problem and he has been doing that in a very rude manner, talking to people like they're dumb ("You are not quite understanding how the Montage works" ; "Really? Wow, Please give your Montage to someone else who can understand what's on offer.").

And he won't pass the problem to the Yamaha engineers (" I'll certainly pass along your request, as long as you also send the suggestion for sixteen transmit channels to the manufacturer of your stage piano ; deal? ").

I just browsed the links above, and if my understanding is correct, the Montage is hamstrung in MIDI flexibility.

I will need to look into it deeper, but if this is the case, then I can cross the Montage off my list of potential replacements for my Yamaha EX5, which is my lower tier board that I need to consider retiring from gigging.

And Yamaha's tone is terribly patronising as well.

Yeah I get that, but Phil has been doing the same thing since the early Motif days. Yamahas midi control has never been the best. I guess its in Yamahas best interest to not admit its them that have the issue. The Motif had the same kind of issues except worse. It was never any good unless using it as a four zone master. At least the Montage has 16 channels of midi, send and receive filters etc. It looks like the downside it you have to send on more than one channel at a time to make it work. Im pretty sure my FA won't have an issue with that. The FA's downside is theres no send midi filter which can be worked around also with key ranges and volumes etc.

I guess all brands have their quirks, all depends on what is most important to the user.

I'm still probably going to grab a Montage but will be holding onto my kronos until I find out if I can do a workaround and get it to function how I need in my setup first.

I still love the sound of the Yamaha. And i still loathe the Kronos sample management and EXS licensing, hence the reason for possible change.