Kronos 2 - What am I missing ??

[enigmahack]

Fickle compared to what? It's no more 'fickle' than an iPhone or iPad - it's the exact same technology.

It's actually not. The iPad and iPhone use screen capacitance which is why it won't work with gloves.

The Kronos screen uses touch screen resistance versus the capacitance so you can use finger nails or other objects that have no need for a special layer that can transfer current.

[danmusician]

The realism is just not 95% like Ivory or Nord 3D..

However Ivory is in the DAW and Nord is too stage oriented

Perhaps you are listening to an alternate universe's Nord. I'm familiar with the one in this universe, and it's not what I would call a competitor to either the Kronos or Ivory (which are pretty close IMO - I have and use both). The Nord cuts through a live band - cool. More realistic? Ummm, not IMHO.

+1

I post this sentiment a lot, but what makes a "good" or "realistic" piano timbre is highly subjective and depends a lot on setting and style. Not so long ago, I went back and listened to a song from a cd I purchased years ago. I've always loved the piano from the track. It was recorded on an acoustic grand. Listening to it now, I'd say that it's thin and tinny sounding. I'd never accept that sound from my digital piano, but it's the real thing.

Bottom line, find the sound that floats your boat and play it to pieces.

[timbukktwo]

One thing I really dislike is when a music store is using poor speakers and cables when trying to sell musical instruments. It's really hard to hear the potential of an instrument! One day I went into a music store and tested a Kronos on both a pair of headphones they had available, and also the speaker and sub woofer setup they had. Even the Kronos sounded 2d! Contrast to my Kronos: I use the Akg K812's (sometimes in conjunction w/ Grace Design's M920 via optical [using Wire World Supernova 6 optical cable]), and the Mackie 824's w/the Mackie HRS 120 (using Monster Cable's SP-1000 microphone xlr's- this is a good cable [Monster gets a rap, I know, but this cable is great!]). I have all this connected to a BBE Sonic Maximizer (JUDICIOUSLY!), then through a Fuhrman power conditioner. Let me tell you- what a NIGHT and DAY difference!!! All this to say (as they say), you are as best as your weakest link!

The Kronos is definitely not an instrument I would call adjectives like lifeless, 2d, etc., like some I've heard say. A lot of the other things that contribute to the 3-D of a mix have a LOT to do with the production and talent behind the equipment, as well; not anything most here wouldn't know or understand. At the end of the day, it's a tool just like any other instrument. However, the Kronos has a very precise and refined sound; a VERY good kind of digital. The Access Virus is another example of an instrument that is a very good kind of digital, as well. The Kronos is not analog, and I don't expect it to be (though it can come somewhat close), as I've got real analog's.

The Kronos, however, has an awesome sound! When you have the additional equipment (I call the 'supporting cast'), skill, and talent- it can sound AMAZING in a completed production! Can't stress this enough!

[danmusician]

One thing I really dislike is when a music store is using poor speakers and cables when trying to sell musical instruments. It's really hard to hear the potential of an instrument! One day I went into a music store and tested a Kronos on both a pair of headphones they had available, and also the speaker and sub woofer setup they had. Even the Kronos sounded 2d! Contrast to my Kronos: I use the Akg K812's (sometimes in conjunction w/ Grace Design's M920 via optical [using Wire World Supernova 6 optical cable]), and the Mackie 824's w/the Mackie HRS 120 (using Monster Cable's SP-1000 microphone xlr's- this is a good cable [Monster gets a rap, I know, but this cable is great!]). I have all this connected to a BBE Sonic Maximizer (JUDICIOUSLY!), then through a Fuhrman power conditioner. Let me tell you- what a NIGHT and DAY difference!!! All this to say (as they say), you are as best as your weakest link!

The Kronos is definitely not an instrument I would call adjectives like lifeless, 2d, etc., like some I've heard say. A lot of the other things that contribute to the 3-D of a mix have a LOT to do with the production and talent behind the equipment, as well; not anything most here wouldn't know or understand. At the end of the day, it's a tool just like any other instrument. However, the Kronos has a very precise and refined sound; a VERY good kind of digital. The Access Virus is another example of an instrument that is a very good kind of digital, as well. The Kronos is not analog, and I don't expect it to be (though it can come somewhat close), as I've got real analog's.

The Kronos, however, has an awesome sound! When you have the additional equipment (I call the 'supporting cast'), skill, and talent- it can sound AMAZING in a completed production! Can't stress this enough!

Also, don't discount the fact that dealers will also set up the boards they want to sell the most with better speakers to make them sound better. I once had a salesman call me for the serial number of a keyboard he thought sold me (I had gotten a price quote for my school but another dealer under bid him.) Turns out there was a contest to see who could sell the most of the instrument and he was counting my sale in his total. I realized at that moment that I could never really be sure that a salesman was truly serving my best interest.

So I do my own research and when I'm in the store playing, I play close attention to how a keyboard is set up and displayed. I look at the sound system or headphones it's connected to. When the salesdude starts telling me why I want one instrument over another, I listen politely (Ok, maybe not always politely) and then go back to my own evaluation.

[timbukktwo]

One thing I really dislike is when a music store is using poor speakers and cables when trying to sell musical instruments. It's really hard to hear the potential of an instrument! One day I went into a music store and tested a Kronos on both a pair of headphones they had available, and also the speaker and sub woofer setup they had. Even the Kronos sounded 2d! Contrast to my Kronos: I use the Akg K812's (sometimes in conjunction w/ Grace Design's M920 via optical [using Wire World Supernova 6 optical cable]), and the Mackie 824's w/the Mackie HRS 120 (using Monster Cable's SP-1000 microphone xlr's- this is a good cable [Monster gets a rap, I know, but this cable is great!]). I have all this connected to a BBE Sonic Maximizer (JUDICIOUSLY!), then through a Fuhrman power conditioner. Let me tell you- what a NIGHT and DAY difference!!! All this to say (as they say), you are as best as your weakest link!

The Kronos is definitely not an instrument I would call adjectives like lifeless, 2d, etc., like some I've heard say. A lot of the other things that contribute to the 3-D of a mix have a LOT to do with the production and talent behind the equipment, as well; not anything most here wouldn't know or understand. At the end of the day, it's a tool just like any other instrument. However, the Kronos has a very precise and refined sound; a VERY good kind of digital. The Access Virus is another example of an instrument that is a very good kind of digital, as well. The Kronos is not analog, and I don't expect it to be (though it can come somewhat close), as I've got real analog's.

The Kronos, however, has an awesome sound! When you have the additional equipment (I call the 'supporting cast'), skill, and talent- it can sound AMAZING in a completed production! Can't stress this enough!

Also, don't discount the fact that dealers will also set up the boards they want to sell the most with better speakers to make them sound better. I once had a salesman call me for the serial number of a keyboard he thought sold me (I had gotten a price quote for my school but another dealer under bid him.) Turns out there was a contest to see who could sell the most of the instrument and he was counting my sale in his total. I realized at that moment that I could never really be sure that a salesman was truly serving my best interest.

So I do my own research and when I'm in the store playing, I play close attention to how a keyboard is set up and displayed. I look at the sound system or headphones it's connected to. When the salesdude starts telling me why I want one instrument over another, I listen politely (Ok, maybe not always politely) and then go back to my own evaluation.

The educated buyer often times knows more than the seller. It's true, too, about what they do even though it's not in your best interest and for their personal gain (which is why you have to pay attention to their tactics).

[benny ray]

Agree most times the seller is not educated on the keyboards you want but wanna sell you one that he likes or someone told him that is the best keyboard.

[timbukktwo]

Getting back on topic, there's something I've noticed in myself with regards to the authenticity of an instrument, which I believe I can relate to the OP with in a tangent sort of way (in which, also, I think the Kronos improves A LOT). In this way, I think I can help. In the past, when I used to think of digital, I used to think of: a wanna-be, less legitimate, almost-but not quite, unreal, etc., when it came to mental placebo's that would try to persuade me to believe that digital was 'inferior' (even though digital has come a very long way). As a result, I kind of allowed myself to think I was a more 'inferior' musician because I didn't have 'real' instrument/s instead (even though digital has many technical pluses that non-digital doesn't or can't have). The way I see it, this kind of thinking is inaccurate, as now I look at music as a whole; and find the proper tools to fill that whole. Because the whole is greater than the sum of its parts, then that whole is greater than any worry as to whether any one instrument is 'inferior' to any other, because it's just as important as the other instruments in that whole. (Whew, if this makes any sense!)

One goal with my music is to communicate, and to find the best tools (per MY definition of best, as you should YOURS) that accomplish this. It's as if I allow my self-esteem as a musician to be demeaned because I don't have 'this-or-that' - 'real' instrument/s to FINALLY allow me to accept myself as a 'legitimate' musician. This thinking is a little corny and immature, but believe me, it creeps in sometimes and I have to reign over it every now and then. There is so much that goes on in what I call the 'cobwebs' of the mind- meaning things that have to be pulled out, properly understood, answered, and finally dealt with to move on. Things like this really need to be grasped. I'm saying all of these things in a musical context, as so many things affect how we approach making music, what gets in the way, and what we have to do about it to achieve the success we're after in making that music.

All of this ties into, believe it or not, how we see things on every possible level and the actions we will then take. The Kronos/Oasys comes into the picture, here, as a concept unlike anything I've experienced before. Sometimes I have to step back, look from a distance to really appreciate what technology is inside! A 'Jack-Of-All-Trades, Master-Of-None'- I've actually heard someone say regarding the Kronos, which I believe is not true! The Kronos/Oasys is pretty darn good across the board (pardon the pun)- and is at least on par, if not, then commands a pretty decent lead in many different areas; no less to have all of these technologies reliably (for the most part) work in ONE instrument. Is it 'perfect' (whatever that is)? What is? I take it for what it is and hope Korg will continue to support it a little while longer, squash bugs, maybe add an engine down the road! After owning the Kronos, it's rather difficult for me to imagine what else could be the ''Next Big Thing" (as if I've MASTERED EVERYTHING ONBOARD, ANYWAY, IF EVER- haha!).

The Kronos does most things quite well for me. Yes, the guitars, distortion effects, etc. (whatever else- well, we all know as it's been said before), could be improved. Otherwise, the Kronos is an absolute pleasure and joy to use every single day of my life, and am extremely greatful for it! Outside of any other possible legitimate nit-pickings, I'd say most everything else onboard is pretty 'real' regarding 'realism'- or at least, useable (in the good sense of the word- not merely meh). Not everything, but most everything, the Kronos/Oasys does quite well.

Sorry, guys, I have so much on my mind, I may be getting way off track. I think I may be rambling on without honing in with what it is this thread is really about, even though my intent had to do with the OP's topic. Haha- I'm just trying to say that, at the end of the day, the Kronos/Oasys for the most part can deliver the goods when needed.

Please take this post for what it is. Maybe there's something in here that's worth applying.

[SanderXpander]

Having worked part time in two different music stores as a student, I can say that at least in those stores the average employee definitely had the customers best interest at heart. I never cared about selling old stock or the most expensive item. I always found (and find) it interesting to find out what someone really wants to accomplish with an item (as opposed to getting them the item that they think they want when they come in).

That said, I found out (mainly later) that working in those stores is a great way to get a lot of theoretical knowledge about what's available but not really practical experience with many items. I hadn't spent weeks on stage with every board, nor hours in the studio with every preamp etc.
You still want to advise people who know less than you. But nobody who has all that experience works in a store like that. It's always best, when you want to buy something, to inform yourself beforehand and to think about what your expectations are. A salesman ultimately can only show you options.

[timbukktwo]

Having worked part time in two different music stores as a student, I can say that at least in those stores the average employee definitely had the customers best interest at heart. I never cared about selling old stock or the most expensive item. I always found (and find) it interesting to find out what someone really wants to accomplish with an item (as opposed to getting them the item that they think they want when they come in).

That said, I found out (mainly later) that working in those stores is a great way to get a lot of theoretical knowledge about what's available but not really practical experience with many items. I hadn't spent weeks on stage with every board, nor hours in the studio with every preamp etc.
You still want to advise people who know less than you. But nobody who has all that experience works in a store like that. It's always best, when you want to buy something, to inform yourself beforehand and to think about what your expectations are. A salesman ultimately can only show you options.

So true!

[timbukktwo]

I had posted, but somehow deleted prior to a SanderXpander's post regarding salesman authenticity, agreeing that not all salesman are out for their own. Many, perhaps most, are there to serve others in their best interest, even if it's at a minimum out of love for what they do. In business, it has to be a win/win situation (at least for the most part).

Just for the record.

[jorgemncardoso]

The realism is just not 95% like Ivory or Nord 3D..

However Ivory is in the DAW and Nord is too stage oriented

Perhaps you are listening to an alternate universe's Nord. I'm familiar with the one in this universe, and it's not what I would call a competitor to either the Kronos or Ivory (which are pretty close IMO - I have and use both). The Nord cuts through a live band - cool. More realistic? Ummm, not IMHO.

+1

I post this sentiment a lot, but what makes a "good" or "realistic" piano timbre is highly subjective and depends a lot on setting and style. Not so long ago, I went back and listened to a song from a cd I purchased years ago. I've always loved the piano from the track. It was recorded on an acoustic grand. Listening to it now, I'd say that it's thin and tinny sounding. I'd never accept that sound from my digital piano, but it's the real thing.

Bottom line, find the sound that floats your boat and play it to pieces.

+2

I would take "musical and alive" over "realistic and sterile" any time.
The whole "realistic" issue is overrated IMO. I've heard a lot of "realistic" multi GB piano's on synth's/vst's/digital pianos (samples) that sound awesome when played on their own, and totally sound like crap and sterile in a mix and even worse in a live setting, while some piano patches of a few dozen MB sound amazing and full live.

It's all a matter of perspective and what's the right sound for the right place.

[Bitflipper]

Yes, sometimes the touch screen is fickle - it's good they include "are you sure?" prompts to avoid disastrous mistakes. But precise operation with your finger isn't terribly difficult, just a skill you have to acquire with practice. Using a touchscreen stylus helped me a lot when I was getting started, but I don't need it anymore.

Fickle compared to what? It's no more 'fickle' than an iPhone or iPad - it's the exact same technology.

And I hate them, too.

Our PA is controlled via a tablet...one night I accidentally muted the singer's mic mid-song because I brushed the screen with the palm of my hand while intending to turn her up.

[highlandstudio91]

Hi Kronos users

I have for years tried to fall i love with the Kronos But everytime I try one I cannot get my head around two things:

1: The Touchscreen. It´s feels pretty oldschol and unresponsive and also combined with the a pretty non touch friendly software with tiny synths and boxes.

2: The Grand Pianos and Ep´s - though huge in size they do not come close to any software or just the Nord Grand Piano 3D..

I really want a workstation - but if Kronos is the Flagship and mother of all workstations - I feel like a need to wait for a Kronos 5.

Sitting in the store in front of the Kronos bending over while tripple pressing that touchscreen to hit a tiny box - I cannot help looking over my shoulder for that hidden camera....

What I missing - since the rest of the world seem to love this board ????

I too,have contemplated buying the Kronos for years,but didn't like the boot up time,the defects and I wondered if doing all of my work on an 8" display for several hours at a time,was something I wanted to do(rather than working in my desktop DAW on a 32" display monitor.)
I also had an issue with Korg never converting to flash memory(like Yamaha,Roland and Kurzweil have done.)
In my opinion,my reasons for hesitating make sense...but your reasons,not so much.
The Kronos has a pristine sound engine,has the adequate sample content and excellent D/A converters...so complaining about the pianos is just silly.
As for the touchscreen thing,I actually prefer it on the Korg keyboards...because I have been using them since the Triton Extreme came out.
As for the concept of the hardware workstation...well....Korg has dominated the hardware DAW realm and companies like Yamaha and Roland,have dropped out of the flagship workstation arena.
Kurzweil still makes workstations,but their tiny display screens completely nullify the usability of song creation.

At this point in time however(since I miss my old M3)...I decided that I wanted to get back into hardware workstations(namely Korg)...because I really missed the instant,hands-on gratification of physical knobs,joysticks,ribbon controllers & the like and not having to be bothered with the tedious installation of computer software.
Also...there is a unique sonic character to Korg,in that when you start tweaking the resonance knob on a Korg,there is something magical happening.
Still though...I was not ready to make a huge investment into a Kronos...so I rationalized buying a Krome(mainly to use as a midi controller) and this was the only way to get my hands on a 73-key midi controller for my PC.
Though I love my Krome Platinum 73,it is very limited sound-wise,due to no expansion options and when I learned of the upcoming Kronos LS 88,I seriously considered buying a Kronos again.
Since the Kronos LS will be the latest and greatest,I figure that all of the bugs will be sorted out,it will have a faster OS and I really like that the 88 keys are lighter in weight.
The LS 88 is also $200 cheaper than the older Kronos and the more I think about it...the more I love the idea of finally acquiring some authentic,pristine orchestral libraries and other acoustic sounds,without having to be bothered with the awful installation and registration issues I've had with Native Instruments and their wretched Kontakt library.
I am actually considering trading in my Krome,for a Kronos...because Krome is still plagued with tech issues and in fact,I had to return my first Krome,because I got that ridiculous System Error 216 message and I am nervous about keeping this keyboard.

[benny ray]

I traded my Krome in on a Kronos X in 2013. I had no issues with the Krome but the Kronos is just so much more powerful. Later updated to K288. For an all in 1 keyboard the Kronos is in the top 2 IMO.

[highlandstudio91]

I traded my Krome in on a Kronos X in 2013. I had no issues with the Krome but the Kronos is just so much more powerful. Later updated to K288. For an all in 1 keyboard the Kronos is in the top 2 IMO.

It goes without saying,that the Kronos is much more powerful...but in my situation,it's probably best for me to keep my Krome,as it serves as a midi controller and the only keyboard I have...at the moment.
I may just wait until I can comfortably spend the necessary funds to have the Kronos(rather than returning my Krome,just to make it easier to make payments on the Kronos.)
Perhaps later in the year,there will be a Kronos LS 73 key...which will make it all the more easier to acquire a Kronos,without sweating my bills.
I am really undecided,at this particular juncture.....all I know at this point,is that I undoubtedly want a Kronos LS eventually and since it's brand new to the market,I got plenty of time to get one.