Korg Forums

There are a couple of things worth remembering.

First, Uli's promise is to equip musicians to a level that he could not achieve when he was young. He has done quite well at that. Love him or hate him, you know what he's shooting for.

Second, while some things that Behringer produces are fairly generic (but let's face it, analogue mixers are pretty much a generic item, with a few variables) in many cases they've augmented the original concept. The DeepMind could easily be construed as a Roland rip-off, but then again they did things with the concept that Roland never did. Similarly, the D clone that they're working on now is ostensibly the same - except that it's not. Moog didn't add all those patch points, didn't put it in eurorack format (I know, eurorack didn't exist then) and so on. Again, like it or not, Behringer is not just a clone factory, but an aggressive and (at least moderately) innovative competitor.

Third, many musicians have limited budgets. Whether it's because they're young and struggling, or because they have day jobs and can't make ends meet through music, so they have a limited gear budget after rent and food and baby strollers and minivans and all that stuff. A product, regardless of how lovely and sustainably created and fair trade organically sown in harmony with the stars and ... and whatever is frankly irrelevant if it's unaffordable. To me, as to many, a minimoog might as well be made of platinum and decorated with star sapphires - it's just not a justifiable purchase. Even if I had four grand to spend on it (spoiler alert: I don't) I'd be better off buying a 61-key Kronos and a crate or five of wine with my savings.

So, I guess this turns into a challenge for all those who bemoan Behringer: supply the budget-constrained musicians of the world with better instruments, cheaper, and put Behringer out of business, because otherwise the history suggests that people will continue to buy Behringer because it's the best deal going.

I think the problem we see with Behringer is the same we see with Amazon.

Both companies at the moment are willing to not make that much profit, their aim is to remove competition not to make money.

When the competition is gone what are you left with?

Kevin Nolan wrote:Behringer bought those companies. Anything they've developed has been stolen.

Paying for something (buying a company) is the same as stealing it? I'm assuming you're planning on returning your stolen keyboards to the store.

I just read the post about the Deckard's Dream DIY 8 voice synth. If you buy the DIY version, then you KNOW where it's been assembled. In your basement.

Heck, there are a bunch of DIY Eurorack synth modules out there. Every one of them can be built in your basement. Just remember to not rest the hot side of the soldering iron on anything flammable.

BobTheDog wrote:I think the problem we see with Behringer is the same we see with Amazon.

Both companies at the moment are willing to not make that much profit, their aim is to remove competition not to make money.

When the competition is gone what are you left with?

I know Amazon and their financials fairly well. They park a bunch of money into reserve accounts, and the result shows somewhat skimpy profit each quarter

Nothing wrong with doing that.

And investors obviously like the story, year after year, as we can tell by the stratospheric stock price/valuation.

Don't assume Amazon is just scraping by every quarter. Bezos is a very smart player.

Kevin Nolan wrote: Might I remind you that the architecture of the DM12 is that of the Juno 106?

No it isn't: the Juno was a single-oscillator, non-resonating filter synth with no arpeggiator. It's akin to saying a calculator and a computer are the same. Gotta disagree with you here.

All of that well and good, but in the mean time the damage being done by Behringer is the attack on real, earnest and genuine companies willing to push the envelope; while vultures like this reap the rewards. One can only imagine a world where only Behringer release music technology (and the way it's going we're not far from it).

Curious: do you excoriate car makers as well? I mean, they stole the gas-engine design from the original designer; radial tire design from the original maker; safety glass from the original maker, et al. Really: why does a Bimmer cost more than a Fiat? Isn't Kia just ripping off the consumer by charging less than Jaguar? Aren't they just stealing the same technology and putting it out there at a lesser price?

Sorry. Competition is competition, and healthy. Moog did very little on the new Mini in terms of R&D- the technology is decades old. Is it less than exemplary business practice for Behringer to put it out there so inexpensively? Yes. Is it morally wrong? No: same way it wasn't morally wrong for Compaq to put out IBM PC-compatible computers at a much cheaper price than IBM did, creating the entire clone industry.

Unless you only own IBM equipment in taking the same moral high ground?

..Joe

Joe Gerardi wrote:

Kevin Nolan wrote: Might I remind you that the architecture of the DM12 is that of the Juno 106?

No it isn't: the Juno was a single-oscillator, non-resonating filter synth with no arpeggiator. It's akin to saying a calculator and a computer are the same. Gotta disagree with you here.

All of that well and good, but in the mean time the damage being done by Behringer is the attack on real, earnest and genuine companies willing to push the envelope; while vultures like this reap the rewards. One can only imagine a world where only Behringer release music technology (and the way it's going we're not far from it).

Curious: do you excoriate car makers as well? I mean, they stole the gas-engine design from the original designer; radial tire design from the original maker; safety glass from the original maker, et al. Really: why does a Bimmer cost more than a Fiat? Isn't Kia just ripping off the consumer by charging less than Jaguar? Aren't they just stealing the same technology and putting it out there at a lesser price?

Sorry. Competition is competition, and healthy. Moog did very little on the new Mini in terms of R&D- the technology is decades old. Is it less than exemplary business practice for Behringer to put it out there so inexpensively? Yes. Is it morally wrong? No: same way it wasn't morally wrong for Compaq to put out IBM PC-compatible computers at a much cheaper price than IBM did, creating the entire clone industry.

Unless you only own IBM equipment in taking the same moral high ground?

..Joe

Excellent truth in your words there Joe.

Apparently the Deep Mind 12 is supposed to be one of the most complex and unique Analog builds ever. I remember reading in SOS or Future music that it's architecture has over 4000 components or something like that.

Must see if I can find that article.

Found it at SOS.

"4000 components, the DeepMind 12 is one of the most complex synthesizers that has ever been built"

http://www.soundonsound.com/reviews/beh ... eepmind-12

How about them apples Kevin

Sharp.

Sharp wrote:Found it at SOS.

"4000 components, the DeepMind 12 is one of the most complex synthesizers that has ever been built"

http://www.soundonsound.com/reviews/beh ... eepmind-12

How about them apples Kevin

Sharp.

Great find Sharp!

Sharp wrote:"4000 components, the DeepMind 12 is one of the most complex synthesizers that has ever been built"

I think Mr. Nolan might see this as 4000 things that would possibly go wrong with it

Thought I'd chime in here for a bit after having lurked on this thread.

First, if I can I prefer to purchase a product made here in Canada. Buy local so to speak. It helps support the economy and work, etc. But the thing I have to always consider is the cost. Sure, I'd absolutely love to have a locally made synth, Modcan though is way way out of my budget. I'm not Deadmau5.

http://www.modcan.com/index.html

I also can't afford American made synth. So I buy mainly Korg. It's the same with guitars for me. My Strat is Mexican, My Epiphone is Malaysian, my next guitar will be a Mexican made Martin. I do have 3 Canadian made acoustics but they're all lower end.
I used to worry more about keeping work in our country but I can't. I try though but unfortunately it always boils down to cost. I also used to worry about politics entering the picture but there's not much I can do about that either.
Yup, it's sad.

I have a Simon&Patrick acoustic and three Godin guitars so I'm supporting Canada for you

Sharp wrote:Found it at SOS.

"4000 components, the DeepMind 12 is one of the most complex synthesizers that has ever been built"

http://www.soundonsound.com/reviews/beh ... eepmind-12

How about them apples Kevin

Sharp.

my guess is Kevin will want to see something called ' proof' and more track record before he changes his sentiment.

I was going to take violin and trumpet lessons.

Now , after seeing DM I am not so sure.

I suppose I could post this dilemma on FaceBook and ask for a WWYD
( or choose)

BobTheDog wrote:I have a Simon&Patrick acoustic and three Godin guitars so I'm supporting Canada for you

Cool!

I have 2 Normans and a Simon and Patrick. My first guitar is a Norman. Unfortunately the neck is done. The truss rod has collapsed and I also have issues with a couple of the braces. Here in Toronto we have a very good guitar shop called the Twelfth Fret. I actually took a guitar building course with them and when I took my old Norman there to see if it could be repaired, my old instructor said don't both putting any money into it. She's done. My heart sank.