looking for a cheap way to record vocals with effects??

JAMESUK · Post by **JAMESUK** » Sun Jan 20, 2008 2:40 am

Hi everyone,

Does anyone know a cheap way to record vocals with effects? Is it best for example to buy a four track/eight track (which i cannot afford!) or can you record lead vocals in another way for instance by using software like Cakewalk and then copying the backing track created on the korg triton extreme and mixing them together using cakewalk on your computer?

And if so whats the best budget software for this? And can anyone recommend a good budget microphone too for recording vocals.

Many thanks
James.

ausser · Post by **ausser** » Sun Jan 20, 2008 4:49 am

for instance by using software like Cakewalk and then copying the backing track created on the korg triton extreme and mixing them together using cakewalk on your computer?

You can certainly do that, if you don't mind a fairly noisey vocal track.
And there is a good lot of free apps/shareware on the net that will let you do that.
Reaper is one that comes to mind.
Also - and I'd really recommend this one - Logic do a program called Logic Fun that allows loads of midi tracks to your audiocard synth and 4 audio tracks.
I recommend this one over Reaper because its very simple to use - but if you want something more complex try Reaper Shareware.

Your problem is going to be the mic - in.
Usually people with PC setups have some kind of external hook-up to the PC whether its a USB audio convertor in - or a good pro soundcard with XLR panels for reasonably Pro Mics.
Judging by your post - I'd say your simplying looking for something to give you an idea of what you sound like - finished project.
So I'd say - go to currys or some domestic highstreet store and see what they have as PC mics - trying to get something reasonable in this dept is kind of chancy though so I wouldn't spend too much money on it.

It does depend on your PC though - ie what kind of Audiocard is involved.
I suspect its something like SB Extreme - which can handle reasonably semi-pro work on a PC - but doesn't have XLR inputs as standard.

If you consider yourself serious about this persuit - ie if you invisage being involved in with that type of tracking for sometime - the best advice I feel i could give you is - get down to the local Credit Union and secure yourself a loan for about £500.

Then - have a hunt round e-bay for some cheap second-hand recorders like Rolands 880 or 1680 even or Korg maybe.
These models are well out of date now - but their capabilities are very good indeed - and deals like that usually come bundled with a reasonably good mic or two.
You could get set up for a good bit less than £500.
But you would have the certain assurance of good producability with one of those units giving you at least 8 - up to 16 tracks.
Another thing is that, should you change your mind - its likely you'll make most your money back as these units are unlikely to drop much further in price any time soon.

Your only remaining problem would be backing up your work on the recorder and getting whats on the unit to CD.
You could simply transfere your tracks via the line in or even better via co-axial to Reaper on the PC - then mix them there and burn to CD on the PC.
Dedicated Recorder CD burners are difficult to find these days but its not impossible that you might get that in a package on E-bay - or even some music retailers round abouts.

One more idea would be to invest in one of the palmsized 4-track digital recorders which can have XLR inputs on them which would reduce the tension for you finding a good cheap mic - else - with some units getting a reasonably good minidisk mic - around 50-60 quid - but even at that - minidisk mics may creat more tension for you regarding vocals than a standard XLR good cheap mic would.
The THING! with palmsized 4-track recorders is to be sure you can control whats played back and whats recorded to - ie 2 stereo pair or 2 setero and 2 mono or 4 mono etc..as in the old 4-track tascam portas of old...
Then you would simply transfere these via your PC onboard soundcard thru stereo line in or if you have it Co-axial or digital.
I think Korg do some models of 4-track digital recorders - from a while back - and there are some other cheaper models out there.

In fact - if cash is a big issue - I'd recommend trying the 4-track to PC route - forget all that Currys paper and comb stuff..
Some should be available on E-bay.

Opps! Hold Up!
one last suggestion is USB midi/audio interface.
There is a thread about this somewhere on this site - I remember asking about it a few years back.
Ok I checked it but the links are a bit out of date - but thankfully - the linked site has updated those models.

http://www.zzounds.com/item--TASUS122
and
http://www.zzounds.com/item--DGDMBOX

I rekon its gonna be the Tascam your interested in.

Looks like a very good little unit for the price - no mic issues as XLR standard, they might do a good cheap mic for you also.
however how much ship to the UK? or do they? you might get the older unit in the UK though.

Lastly - regarding this USB unit - you'd need to consider how much noise peripheral equipment may make in proximity to your mic - unless you can isolate the mic in another quiter room.
hehe I just thinking you probably know all that already.
Portability is the thing with a 4-track digital though

- and some models come with a USB interface - so no transfere issues.

Anyway - hope that helps.

Let us know how you get on.

Peace
Ausser.

PS:Incidentaly - older Multi 8-16 track recorders like Roland I mentioned
above - definitely NO USB.

JAMESUK · Post by **JAMESUK** » Sun Jan 20, 2008 5:08 am

Hi Ausser,

Thanks for your very informative response. Im a complete novice with regards to music technology and i have only just bought my korg Triton Extreme 61 and im having a lot of fun playing around with it and laying down song ideas just for fun. But curiousity always gets the better of me and i wonder what the track would sound like if it had a lead vocal on it and so thats why im investigating the possibility of getting something to record the vocals on.

Perhaps your last bit of advice with regards to buying a good four track with a usb connector sounds most suitable as i would like a relatively noise free vocal track and a four track recorder sounds relatively easy to use too.

One question though does the four track come with some sort of effects feature in which i can add effects to my voice as i sing? I hear that most artists or producers using compression on voices when they are recording them and i have also heard of other vocal effects like chorus, reverb etc

Anyway many thanks for your first response.

James.

JAMESUK · Post by **JAMESUK** » Sun Jan 20, 2008 5:11 am

Oh and one more thing. The computer i have is an apple imac with dual core processor and 1gb of ram. Note sure about the sound card though but its a relatively new computer as i only bought it last year.

Many thanks
James.

ausser · Post by **ausser** » Sun Jan 20, 2008 5:12 am

Some options on new 4 and even 8 track handies...

http://www.zzounds.com/cat--Removable-D ... acks--2882

Might get similar deals on these and older models in the UK.

The thing about one of these is you will probably never sell it and it can come in handy.
Check transfere options though.

Peace
Ausser.

JAMESUK · Post by **JAMESUK** » Sun Jan 20, 2008 5:17 am

Thanks again Ausser,

Im off to bed now as its 5.16am in London lol And heaven knows what im still doing up!

But i will check out that link tomorrow and have a good look at all the products.

Thanks for all your help today it was very much appreciated.

James.

ausser · Post by **ausser** » Sun Jan 20, 2008 5:40 am

One question though does the four track come with some sort of effects feature in which i can add effects to my voice as i sing? I hear that most artists or producers using compression on voices when they are recording them and i have also heard of other vocal effects like chorus, reverb etc

I'm fairly sure that the newer 4-track portable solutions do come with a good range of all the effects you might need or want to try going in - and even some of the older models as part of their selling point I recall was exactly that.
But also, I believe Reaper - last time I checked it out - has a good batch of processing effects in its software setup - so with that - you would have a good lot of options to get a good sound.

opps - its a MAC isn't it - not sure about Reaper there as I don't know Mac at all - you can run PC apps on them these days though AFAIK.
But you'd be safer with an app spceifically designed for the MAC imo - and theres bound to be some good free/shareware out there for it.

A good few guys on here use MACs - including Sharp I believe, so you'd be best getting advice from them about that.
With the USB devices and any 4-track recorder USB/Smart interfaces - be sure to check with the seller how they work with on a MAC.
In fact - I'm sure somebody on here could point you in the best direction since its an iBook your working with.
Sorry I can't say for sure - Mac in years gone by was well noted for its stability in the audio line - early models even came equipped with Midi ports - I'd say the stock soundcard in your Mac would be well able to handle a good basic 8 track plus audio setup and your 1 gig Ram should be well more than enough.

If you ran a thread in the Computers section entitled something like 'Need help/advice on getting basic audio into Mac ibook...'
You should get some good advice there....hopefully LOL.

Good luck with it and let us know what you decide.

Peace
Ausser.

smstome · Post by **smstome** » Sun Jan 20, 2008 6:09 am

YOU CAN DO ALL IN EXTREME RESAMPLING

SEQ MODE
Connect Mic to input of Ex
Go to sampling tab
Choose input (Analog 1/2 -Mic connected in)
Select Bus 2
Go to effects section choose desired effect for the route
Sampling tab-Check level of Mic
Rec-Sample, Start (Record sample in card)
Then click Seq start button and stop sampling while you are done.

moniter the seq track with headphones while resampling

JAMESUK · Post by **JAMESUK** » Sun Jan 20, 2008 3:31 pm

Hi Smstome,

Can you record a whole lead vocal for a whole track through the sampling facility on the korg triton extreme?

And will i have to upgrade the ram memory to be able to do that?

Many thanks
James.

pagey · Post by **pagey** » Sun Jan 20, 2008 6:26 pm

Not if you have a compact Flash card. You can record straight to that (upto 80mins) with no sample ram installed!

ausser · Post by **ausser** » Sun Jan 20, 2008 7:41 pm

YOU CAN DO ALL IN EXTREME RESAMPLING

Wow! then your all set - as it were...
Sorry James, I own a Triton Classic - which doesn't facilitate recording or sampling directly into the sequence - its only for sampling sounds for programs.
The Triton Studio comes with the option to record 2 track audio - 1 stereo pair - in conjuction with the sequence.

Im not familiar with the Extreme - but I presume what smstome means is that you can record an audio stereo sample track as it were...directly into the sequencer on the Extreme - in much the same way as one does on the Triton Studio.
Sorry, I didn't know the Extreme could do that.

QUESTION: Has any Extremer here ever recoded Vocals directly into the Extreme's sequencer as a vocal track. What was it like?

That would mean the only thing you would need really - would be a half decent mic and a 1/4 to 1/8 inch jack for going into the iMac - or digital - if you have it - since you have all the effect options of the Extreme, going- in....

Also, I presume the Extreme doesn't have XLR jacks - might be wrong though

..... so you will need an XLR to Standard Lead Jack converter - to plug into the end of your mic cable - so that you can plug the mic into the Standard input socket on the Extreme.
You can however get mic leads that are Cannon/XLR to Standard Jack.

Peace
Ausser.

PS: You could be down to 30 or 40 quid after all

.....LOL

ausser · Post by **ausser** » Sun Jan 20, 2008 8:05 pm

Good news James - you can deffinitely do that!
And probably more besides......
Might be able to use the valve to warm up the vocals somehow - if the mics good but not great.
I never knew the Extreme could do all that - kind of leaves the Classic/Studio sitting.

http://www.korg.com/gear/prod_info.asp? ... TONEXTREME

Click the link sizziling sampling.

It also mentions something a USB there also.

So it looks like 30 or 40 quid for a mic and a lead.

Good luck!

Peace
Ausser.

PS: I suspect Buyer's Remorse is now far from your door...LOL

PPS: Opps again

on that link to Korgs specs - it states that you can record sampling - vocal lines etc directly into the Extremes sequencer.
From this thread however - MartinHines

http://www.korgforums.com/forum/phpBB2/ ... hp?t=30691

it seems to suggest that there may be issues recording a whole lead vocal track into the sequencer with the extreme - due to the way the memory may be laid out - ie there may be a limit to the in-track sampling size of say maybe 40secs or 1 minute or so per chunk - so if your song is 3 mins long - you wouldn't be able to record a lead vocal track into the sequencer the whole way through.
You might be able to work around that though, per verse/chorus, but it would be awkward and chancy.

Also, the USB and digital options seem extensive on the Extreme so if the In-Track Vocal Sampling/Recording doesn't work out - you may be able to Sync the extreme up to a Mac app someway - where the Mac is controling the Extremes sequencer - then leave an effect or 2 for singing along with the synced sequence as you record the tracks into the Mac.
Else you could 1st record the Sequence Track into the Mac App - and then just use the Extreme as an Effects unit for the vocal track recording to the Mac.

I hope somebody can give use the LowDown on Extreme for recording standard Lead Vocal Tracks into its sequencer - as it would make me seriously consider changing tot he Extreme.

ausser · Post by **ausser** » Sun Jan 20, 2008 9:10 pm

Here is some info. also......

http://www.korgforums.com/forum/phpBB2/ ... hp?t=31061

It would be nice to clarify this - I presume he means that you would record the Vocal track first - so that you can monitor and sing in-sync to the Sequence Track. ie Takeno00.wave - presumably a stereo .wav file.
Then Record the Sequence track - and mix the two by whatever facility on the Extreme. Takeno01.wave
So in fact - I take it YOU CAN! record a whole uninterrupted vocal track on the Extreme - with effects going in.

Please Extremers - Talk to us...

Peace
Ausser.

smstome · Post by **smstome** » Mon Jan 21, 2008 5:37 am

. QUESTION: Has any Extremer here ever recoded Vocals directly into the Extreme's sequencer as a vocal track. What was it like?

Yes i did. Great. you can have complete control on your vocals with insert -EQ & FX.

I don't own a studio. So (just of curiosity) i would like to know the advantage of its HD 2 tracks recording over Extreme.

smstome · Post by **smstome** » Mon Jan 21, 2008 5:46 am

[quote="ausser"]
It would be nice to clarify this - I presume he means that you would record the Vocal track first - so that you can monitor and sing in-sync to the Sequence Track.
Please Extremers - Talk to us...

Hi

No not like this.
First have your sequence on your SEQ mode & the mic ready.

And while you start sampling (Smpl) Rec-Start-(SEQ)Start-
You will here the sequence through EX output (headphones).
Along with that, you can sing (like karoke).
And Now
SEQ with YOUR VOCAL will be sampled as a SINGLE STEREO WAVE FILE -Ready to burn as audio CD.

.