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If I take the Combi bank I-A 023, The Musical fox, I have on Module A on Gch, Output channel 02, 4 timbres, and the timbre on midi track 01 and 02, organ and woodwind would play, when Karma is OFF, but, when Karma START, the midi channel 3 and 4, timbres 12 string and A/guitar are coming into life and the first 2 timbre are mute...I read the book but could not find out and in witch chapter, where to make change with the KARMA START and STOP....

thanks for any help

also, on the same combi, when we have all the DRUMS, playing on Module C and D, output channel 04, we do have 4 different drums, but only 2 midi track recorded....Question, when I would save the midi file Format 1, I would only have total 4 midi track, but we have really 10 timbres on 10 different midi track, but, Karma, only use 4 midi track out, because Karma is able to play more then one timbre per midi channel,..., but, another midi gear can not do it the same way....Then, if I like to listen to all the 10 timbres, WITHOUT an OASYS, I mean another midi gear, what would be the best procedure, to effectively have 10 midi track and timbres each assigned to it's own and alone midi track....

and thanks again.....

mozartella wrote:If I take the Combi bank I-A 023, The Musical fox, I have on Module A on Gch, Output channel 02, 4 timbres, and the timbre on midi track 01 and 02, organ and woodwind would play, when Karma is OFF, but, when Karma START, the midi channel 3 and 4, timbres 12 string and A/guitar are coming into life and the first 2 timbre are mute...I read the book but could not find out and in witch chapter, where to make change with the KARMA START and STOP....

Combination -> Timbre Parameters -> Wave Seq/KARMA -> KARMA Timbre Off Control

mozartella wrote:also, on the same combi, when we have all the DRUMS, playing on Module C and D, output channel 04, we do have 4 different drums, but only 2 midi track recorded....Question, when I would save the midi file Format 1, I would only have total 4 midi track, but we have really 10 timbres on 10 different midi track, but, Karma, only use 4 midi track out, because Karma is able to play more then one timbre per midi channel,..., but, another midi gear can not do it the same way....

Actually, any gear can play it the same way. Internally, KARMA simply uses MIDI. Multiple Timbres can be set to the same MIDI Channel.

It sounds like there might be different drum sounds on the same MIDI channel. In this case, the different drums would be different notes. You could separate these out into different tracks by isolating those notes.

Best regards,

Dan

Dan thanks you

a clear and easy answer to follow...

for the second one, You are telling any gears could play back it the same way...ok for me, but, when opening that midi file generated by an Oasys, where would I see the say 4 timbres in a midi channel, and be able to read, what timbre is used?

In the Sysex? where? because, to my understanding a midi file would only play back the 126 GM midi patchs....this is where I am lost....

thanks for the help. I appreciate it

mozartella wrote:Dan thanks you

a clear and easy answer to follow...

for the second one, You are telling any gears could play back it the same way...ok for me, but, when opening that midi file generated by an Oasys, where would I see the say 4 timbres in a midi channel, and be able to read, what timbre is used?

In the Sysex? where? because, to my understanding a midi file would only play back the 126 GM midi patchs....this is where I am lost....

thanks for the help. I appreciate it

MIDI channels are the only way to determine which Timbres receive MIDI data. Neither the internal sequencer, nor KARMA, nor external MIDI devices can use anything other than the MIDI channel to direct MIDI data to a specific Timbre.

Timbre settings, such as key and velocity zoning, can control how individual timbres respond to that MIDI data. This may be what you are looking for.

- Dan

MIDI channels are the only way to determine which Timbres receive MIDI data. Neither the internal sequencer, nor KARMA, nor external MIDI devices can use anything other than the MIDI channel to direct MIDI data to a specific Timbre.

ok, but that is not what I am looking for..we do have on ONE MIDI channel, say, 4 timbres going into IN and OUt, let presume I have on timbre 1 string, on timbre 2 violin, on timbre 3 guitar, and on timbre 4 mandolin, then? where I can truly look on the midi file the indication, that that MIDI channel say 3, receiving 4 timbres , and I would like say, correct timbre 2 violin for an accordion...? How to do it, and from where to start, either from the internal sequencer or also from an external sequencer to be able to change the timbre...?

Timbre settings, such as key and velocity zoning, can control how individual timbres respond to that MIDI data. This may be what you are looking for.

Almost, we are almost there...

Sorry Dan, but do you understand my writting?

thansk again, and BTW, the Timbre ON or OFF control, I am so happy to get that one, with your help....

mozartella wrote:
Sorry Dan, but do you understand my writting?

I'm sorry, but I'm not sure that I do.

MIDI channels are the only way to determine which Timbres receive MIDI data.

Neither the internal sequencer, nor KARMA, nor external MIDI devices can use anything other than the MIDI channel to direct MIDI data to a specific Timbre.

The Timbres may then respond to or ignore MIDI data based on their own settings, such as key and velocity zones and MIDI filters. This happens in the Timbre, and not in the MIDI data.

mozartella wrote:thansk again, and BTW, the Timbre ON or OFF control, I am so happy to get that one, with your help....

Glad to hear it.

- Dan

I think what Mozrtella is asking is how can 1 midi channel have data for multiple timbres. In a MIDI file for example, track 1 may be strings, track 2 maybe guitar, track 3 flute, track 4 organ, track 5 FX, track 10 drums. So, how can one MIDI channel control all these MIDI tracks together ?

( The way that Global Channel on the keyboard controls muliple timbres in Combi mode ) The confusion, I think , is the difference between a MIDI track and a MIDI channel. Or maybe I'm confused also ?

Hi Mozartella,

By coincidence, I used this same Combi (Musical Fox) as the starting point for a project earlier this week!

Like you, I noticed that there are 4 timbres for Drums, but they are all on the same MIDI channel. What makes them different is simply the Keyboard Zone. Each timbre is assigned to different notes, in some cases, it is just a handful.

So, to reproduce this on other instruments, you will have to either:

* restrict the note range of the instrument receiving.

or, perhaps easier,

* in your sequencer, make copies of the track and erase the note data that you don't want.

Does this make sense?

jg::

steve m wrote:I think what Mozrtella is asking is how can 1 midi channel have data for multiple timbres. In a MIDI file for example, track 1 may be strings, track 2 maybe guitar, track 3 flute, track 4 organ, track 5 FX, track 10 drums. So, how can one MIDI channel control all these MIDI tracks together ?

( The way that Global Channel on the keyboard controls muliple timbres in Combi mode ) The confusion, I think , is the difference between a MIDI track and a MIDI channel. Or maybe I'm confused also ?

yes and thanks to understand my troubles....then? who could explain the difference say, from Midi channel usually at 01, and the midi track total of 16...this is confusing for me. and, how could I look or where would I look at, say midi track 4 into 1 midi channel, how could I find out the exact name of the timbre or patch?

thanks you JG::

it make also sens, but I need still more

Steve Me said:

The confusion, I think , is the difference between a MIDI track and a MIDI channel. Or maybe I'm confused also ?

Each of the 16 tracks in the Oasys sequencer can be given different MIDI channels. In fact, they can all be on the same MIDI channel if you want.

It's the same with SMFiles, except that there is no practical limitation to the number of tracks. Each track can have it's own MIDI channel. So, if you created a song in Oasys with 12 tracks of data and all 12 tracks set to MIDI channel 1, then the SMF would have 12 tracks, and all of them would be set to MIDI channel 1.

How to get these tracks to play on different instruments from another sequencer? Well, that's up to you! You will have to re-channelize the data, or set different tracks to different key zones, or erase some notes from some of the tracks. Changing the MIDI channels in the other sequencer might be the most direct way.

[btw, Standard MIDI Files do not have to be constricted to General MIDI. SMFs were introduced way before GM.]

Does this help at all? If not, you might have to ask the question again, bearing in mind what you understand so far.

jg::

jg:: wrote:Steve Me said:

The confusion, I think , is the difference between a MIDI track and a MIDI channel. Or maybe I'm confused also ?

Each of the 16 tracks in the Oasys sequencer can be given different MIDI channels. In fact, they can all be on the same MIDI channel if you want.

It's the same with SMFiles, except that there is no practical limitation to the number of tracks. Each track can have it's own MIDI channel. So, if you created a song in Oasys with 12 tracks of data and all 12 tracks set to MIDI channel 1, then the SMF would have 12 tracks, and all of them would be set to MIDI channel 1.

How to get these tracks to play on different instruments from another sequencer? Well, that's up to you! You will have to re-channelize the data, or set different tracks to different key zones, or erase some notes from some of the tracks. Changing the MIDI channels in the other sequencer might be the most direct way.

[btw, Standard MIDI Files do not have to be constricted to General MIDI. SMFs were introduced way before GM.]

Does this help at all? If not, you might have to ask the question again, bearing in mind what you understand so far.

jg::

yes it help, what is making me to wonder, when recording say a Combi with 4 modules and in the 4 modules we do have 12 timbres, I can't still look at the file to find out, where 4 timbres went on module A, 2 on Module B, 1 on Module C, easy...., and 5 on module D...then I stil do not have an answer....I mean, where on the SMF, and if I am say with Cubase or Sonar, where can I see the 12 patchs name into the SMF? knowing, they are going to 4 midi channel? and on Gch Again, not using an Oasys to play it back... I also know, if I would have individual patche or timbre to the remaining track, in that case 4, and each would goes to it's proper midi channel, then here I could look at the patch name, without trouble....in an external sequencer and from here could change the patch if I would, but with a Module ? do we have always to manually duplicate all the tracks inside A Combi, to assign differents patchs if we would like ?

thanks again
thanks and sorry to be dumb

mozartella wrote:I mean, where on the SMF, and if I am say with Cubase or Sonar, where can I see the 12 patchs name into the SMF? knowing, they are going to 4 midi channel?

You won't see anything like that in the SMF. I think you're trying to address this problem in the wrong way, because going via SMF is losing the contextual information inside the combi.

Personally I would "solo" each GE and capture the data filtered by keyzone for each timbre. Actually personally, I wouldn't be doing this at all Sometimes it's easier to resort to old school playing or just creating your own GE setups than untangling these cunningly crafted combis.

Daz.

Daz wrote:

mozartella wrote:I mean, where on the SMF, and if I am say with Cubase or Sonar, where can I see the 12 patchs name into the SMF? knowing, they are going to 4 midi channel?

You won't see anything like that in the SMF. I think you're trying to address this problem in the wrong way, because going via SMF is losing the contextual information inside the combi.

Personally I would "solo" each GE and capture the data filtered by keyzone for each timbre. Actually personally, I wouldn't be doing this at all Sometimes it's easier to resort to old school playing or just creating your own GE setups than untangling these cunningly crafted combis.

Daz.

Daz, thanks you for telling me THAT, I would never be able to see or visualise the patches into a Module, from an SMF file, Now, I am finally at peace.... Then I would untangle first my noncunning and not so well crafted Combi of mine...But, you telling and someone else too, to SOLO each GE, and filtering by keyzone....ok, more to try, more to learn, and thanks all of you....back to study

danatkorg wrote: Combination -> Timbre Parameters -> Wave Seq/KARMA -> KARMA Timbre Off Control

Dan

Thanks Dan,
This is really a good one!

For Mozartella,
These tricky things gave me also some headaches. One can really feel sometimes the limits of one's head, no?
And thinking that now a guy has found a way to split even multichordal waves and edit them! >>>Melodyne DNA
This might become the future for many purposes (discovered in Frankfurt at the MusikMesse)
Anashwaran