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Can someone help me with this problem:

I'm trying to record KARMA stuff into Logic 8, and I get stuck every time.. So if someone could hold my hand and walk me thru it I'd be very thankful!

I know there are posts here and over at Karma Lab covering this, but I still can't make it work!! (I'm supposed to be very experienced when it comes to MIDI & audio stuff, and now I'm embarrassed...)

Question:

How do I go about if there's a Combi with lot's of Karma stuff going on that I want to record as separate midi tracks, including pads and controllers, into Logic?

I get a bit confused by the amount of variables that have to be right in order for this to happen..

Thanks.

Create MIDI tracks in Logic and assign separate MIDI channel to each track that corresponds to Karma channels. Convert the combi into a song (as far as I know you can't record Karma messages to an external sequencer in the combi mode). Set all Oasys Karma tracks from Internal to Both. Now you should be able to receive Karma messages on each channel in Logic. It works in my setup - however I prefer to record each Karma channel separately by soloing it and imediately bounce it to audio - there is a lot of strange MIDI activity between my Oasys and Logic, e.g. MIDI faders in Logic jump to 127.

Hi Przemm,

Thanks for your response. I found some articles over at Karma Lab (Wiki) that explained a few things, but I just can't get it to work.

There's some crazy stuff going on between Logic and the Oasys, and I can't seem to fix that. This has become too much work already, so I am slowly abandoning the idea of recording Karma into Logic. It was not meant to be I guess..

Hi,

I know what you are talking about - I spent many hours on Logic-Oasys issues and I haven't found the solution. At least I can record one Karma track at once but unfortunatelly it is not like it should be. I found that Oasys sends some MIDI messages that can't be filtered without affecting some other MIDI fuctions, e.g. damper, aftertouch. That is really strange - I have no other problems with other stuff of mine. However, I found that changing MIDI interface helped a bit - I used M-audio and Edirol interface and that was total chaos - now I have Motu 128 Express and things got a bit better. I wonder if that is also Logic fault - this piece of SW is buggy like hell. Yesteday I lost entire project due to Logic problem - just no audio on the output buss and 70 tracks (I am sure I didn't mute or solo anything) - although I could listen to each wav file in Sample Editor - I had to export the tracks and import them into a fresh project - an long hours addtional work with renaming files, creating busses etc. It happend to me four times already. I am slowly getting desperate...

Just a question:

Has anybody (including Jerry, Stephen, Dan etc) succesfully recorded Karma output into Logic 8?..

I specifically mean separate midi tracks in Logic containing midi information for each Karma module in a combi.

A search over at Karma didn't re-assure me that it's possible at all...

LOL ... just record to the internal sequencer, dump song to MIDI file in Disk mode, copy that to USB memory and sneaker net to your DAW

I have done this before once and IIRC (!) only got it to work well after a) ensuring Logic was in correct multi record mode and b) Oasys had Local Control On and Convert Position set appropriately in Global mode. Maybe I will try it again later and recreate what I did, if you're still stuck.

Fortunately I tend not to work this way. I drive a GE and timbre using a Logic MIDI track and then record the resulting audio separately through ADAT.

Why do you want to do this anyway ?

Daz wrote:LOL ... just record to the internal sequencer, dump song to MIDI file in Disk mode, copy that to USB memory and sneaker net to your DAW

I have done this before once and IIRC (!) only got it to work well after a) ensuring Logic was in correct multi record mode and b) Oasys had Local Control On and Convert Position set appropriately in Global mode. Maybe I will try it again later and recreate what I did, if you're still stuck.

Fortunately I tend not to work this way. I drive a GE and timbre using a Logic MIDI track and then record the resulting audio separately through ADAT.

Why do you want to do this anyway ?

Hey Daz,

I did as you suggested, saving the song as a Standard Midi File and opening it in Logic. Not bad, although a bit on the quirky side of workflow..

I want to do this because sometimes there's just THAT single little note that is off in an otherwise great Karma performance.. Given the vast complexity of Karma, it's not always easy to do so by changing parameters in any given GE.

Like this, I can open the karmafied track in Logic, and remove or add as I like.

curvebender wrote:Just a question:

I specifically mean separate midi tracks in Logic containing midi information for each Karma module in a combi.

I'm using Cubase but you might try the same in Logic.
I convey the combi to the sequencer( enter/rec). I disarm recording because I want only to record in the DAW. I check the outputs so that all used channels are on BTH (both). You need only to put the first of the different used Midi-channels to BTH! (Those that are armed automatically). I put the sequencer to External Midi in the Global.
In the Daw I arm 1 Midi-track for recording, check the tempo and the sending of a Midi-clock (syncing).
Then i record with 2 bars pre-intro and a click to get the tempo.
After recording the played song, I separate the midi-channels in the DAW. I don't know if Logic has such a command, but normally modern DAW's have.
One very important point is that you have Control Change and System Exclusive enabled in the Global. Otherwise a lot of Karma Parameters will be missing.
Then I can work on the Midi-files. When they are finished, I can record the audio-files, normally 1 by 1 through the optical out in the Oasys.
If you have a soundcard with many Ins you can use the 8 outs, L/R and/or the optical in the Oasys to transfer your audio or like DAZ use ADAT.
It is of course also possible to record to the internal sequencer as DAZ has proposed, but I prefer handling it through Cubase.
It is somehow not an ideal workflow, and I have written enough about my view of the Korg Midi-system so not to repeat it here.
But at least like this I have finally a very good result which can be edited in every way.
Hope that helps a little
Anashwaran

I tried both methods described at KLF but succeeded only with the one recording the trigger events. Which IMHO is the more interesting one anyway. First I thought it's more important to have each single midi-event in the sequencer ready for editing. But it turned out it's more helpfull to edit the trigger-events exactly - that is, as long as the GEs work the way you want them to (eg. melodic-output).

Charlie wrote:I tried both methods described at KLF but succeeded only with the one recording the trigger events. Which IMHO is the more interesting one anyway. First I thought it's more important to have each single midi-event in the sequencer ready for editing. But it turned out it's more helpfull to edit the trigger-events exactly - that is, as long as the GEs work the way you want them to (eg. melodic-output).

Sorry Charlie,
I don't understand what you mean by trigger-events and that you only succeded with one way. Could you be more explicit?
Anashwaran

Stephen describes 2 ways for using Karma together with an external sequencer. I don't have the link right now to KLF. One way is recording the events trigerring the Karma-Modules (eg. playing a chord on the keyboard starts Karma making music). The other records the Midi-Output of the Karma Moduls (eg. the notes played, CC-changes etc.). With the first method you just record the event tiggering the Karma-machine. With the second you record what is produced by the Karma-machine.

Aha, OK.
But if you only succeded with the triggering that means you did'nt apply the above procedure correctly. Recording only the triggering chords is even possible without copying your combi to the sequencer. At playback you will only hear your Karma when it is ON in the Oasys, whereas if the Karma is recorded completely in your DAW you hear what has been recorded ( or edited) if you use the same combi.
But as I said, the whole workflow is rather fussy, and when you use the Karma Editor in that whole procedure for adjusting your Karma GE's it even gets worth. That is a significant advantage of the new Open Labs system. It is of course great to have the editor in your KB (and the DAW also?). But what to do? The prior generations have always to pay for the guys coming after. And I never would change my Oasys for a Open Lab!
(Sorry for the drifting off... )
Anashwaran

I have had some success trying to record Karma to my Cubase SX3 sequencer after reading the following tutorial

http://karma-lab.wikidot.com/karma2:rec ... sequencers

It is quite a fiddly thing to do though as one has to keep changing global settings on the OASYS and also the midi settings in Cubase when moving from recording to playing back, etc, but if you have for example set the global settings for method 1, you can then go to Disk mode and save just the global settings as a pcg file. You can then repeat that for the other methods so its a bit faster to change all the settings depending on what you are doing.

I am not familiar with Logic but it should work similarly so long as there is no midi loopback, so check the midi in/out for each track, but it is all explained on the above tutorial link.

Hope that helps

Thanks t-tangent for the link.
In fact what I described was method 3.
As I mentionned in other threads I will never, never understand why Korg didn't make it simpler. These Japanese guys are stubborn in my opinion. (Must be said once)
Why not implement the possibility in Combis to assign BTH to all channels? Because the problem that always arises is that you cannot edit your Combi in the sequencer mode. So if you want to change something in your Combi, you have to go back to the Combi mode, change it there ( and save it) and go back to the sequencer, change the Output again to BTH and then go on. Even in writing this I get tired and fed up. What a mess!
But what can you do? If they even don't update the sequencer what to expect? Even my old Yamaha PSR9000 is superior here in every way!
I must admit that it makes me sick everytime I reflect on it.
..........
Anashwaran