M3 keybd to midi

[mbncp]

Is there a way to use the m3 keyboard as a midi controller without going thru the m3 module ? Adapter ?

Or an extension cable that would let me have the module and the keyb 2-3 meters from each other ?

thanks

[mikemolloyuk]

Is there a way to use the m3 keyboard as a midi controller without going thru the m3 module ? Adapter ?

No this is not possible unless you connect the Radias and use the keyboard to control that in the same way as the M3.

Mike

[mbncp]

Don't want a radias, getting a polar in a few days.

No other korg unit (kaos stuff or whatever) can use that interface ?

Btw, isn't that just a standard midi port powered by the unit ?
Any spec on that ?

[mikemolloyuk]

No other korg unit (kaos stuff or whatever) can use that interface ?

Btw, isn't that just a standard midi port powered by the unit ?
Any spec on that ?

So far there is nothing else that uses the same interface. It is a smaller din interface than the classic 5-pin version.

Mike

[JeffR]

Just curious, are you saying it's a standard MIDI interface except for size?

[mikemolloyuk]

Its a midi interface of sorts.. it just dealing with joystick and modulation and note on/off and aftertouch information. The cable also provides a small anount of power to the keyboard unit.

M

[mbncp]

Would be nice to have some info from korg tech people.
If it's indeed just a standard midi port + 2 extra wires for the power I would really like the idea.
As there are some problems when using the M3 with local mode turned off (chords are not being sent, neither karma,..).

[mbncp]

Would be nice to have some info from korg tech people.

sorry Mike, didn't realize that you are the tech guy

Thinking about it, I may go as well for a radias, but first I would like to know :

a) if there are any issue using both the m3 and radias connected to usb on the same pc ?

b) can the radias work in local off mode and without any problem like the ones I have with the M3

c) can the radias work also as a midi controller, sending midi whenever I touch,move,turn a knob,button,.. ?

On the m3, when ever I touch something it sends some midi message (cc, sysex,..) which is cool as I could always use it to do other stuff.
That's the main reason I sold the pa2xpro, wanted mainly to use it as a master keyboard and use all it's button/slider to control other stuff, but no luck. Very depressing to have all these controls at your finger tip and being "useless"

[jake88]

I was just thinking about how nice that would be the other day. Why can't Korg make an adaptor? I know power is sent for the joystick and SW 1&2, but the keys should all be just midi signals right?

[mbncp]

I was just thinking about how nice that would be the other day. Why can't Korg make an adaptor? I know power is sent for the joystick and SW 1&2, but the keys should all be just midi signals right?

The full keyboard needs power, but it shouldn't be a problem supplying it with a small adapter.
Then I guess/hope that the signal is standard midi in which case it would be fairly easy to build an adapter.

It would be nice to have the reference of the female connector and wireing spec, that would make it even easier.

[Rob Sherratt]

There is a lot of electronics required - including microprocessor and code -to convert the M3 keybed interface into a MIDI compatible interface. That is what the MIDI controller functions on the M3 or Radias do for us.

Software in combination with user preference settings has to work out which octave and MIDI channel the key contact is assigned to, and then generate the appropriate MIDI note on digital value to transmit. Also the controller has to generate program change messages, after touch, sustain, controller values etc. The electronics on the keybed itself is much simpler and it merely generates a serial bit stream indicating contacts closing and opening. The keybed knows nothing about MIDI octaves or MIDI note values or MIDI program change values or MIDI controller values. The keybed has no way of knowing what configuration parameters are required by the user. The keybed interface is definitely not a MIDI interface.

You can buy FATAR keybeds which have a similar interface to that used from the keybed of the M3, and the technical specification for the keybed "serialized switch contact" interface is available from Fatar. It's a pretty dumb interface. And Fatar / Studiologic also make the complete MIDI controller keyboards which include a microprocessor, memory and a user interface - all of which are essential before a "keybed" can be converted into a "MIDI keyboard".

Best regards,
Rob

[mbncp]

[..]The keybed interface is definitely not a MIDI interface.[..]

What is it then ?

It's definitly not all wires from the keybed that makes it to the module

So they do need a way to transfert that info to the module and why would they have re-invented the wheel when such a protocol already exist.
As the module already "understands" MIDI that would be the easiest and cheapest way to send the info from the keybed.

The only reason,IMO, they didn't use a standard midi cable is to avoid an extra power supply.

I could be wrong, but I hate that idea. I like the m3 keybed because it's easy to put a second keyboard on top of it. And I would prefer to have the m3 module on the side.
Making the cable longer isn't a big deal,but I would prefer to have the keybed work as a standard midi controller.

[Rob Sherratt]

The individual keypresses are scanned by a small IC that subsequently serialises the contact on/off information for further processing on the M3 or Radias main board. It's just contact open/closed information, plus the digitised values of the joystick and ribbon position are added into the bitstream.

Regards,
Rob

[mbncp]

The individual keypresses are scanned by a small IC that subsequently serialises the contact on/off information [..]

That's what all midi controllers do. What makes you think the serial protocol used is not plain old midi ?

[Rob Sherratt]

The individual keypresses are scanned by a small IC that subsequently serialises the contact on/off information [..]

That's what all midi controllers do. What makes you think the serial protocol used is not plain old midi ?

Hi Marc,

Take a look at this project to build a home made MIDI keyboard controller here:

http://www.geocities.com/JDPetkov/Hardw ... mkcv96.htm

In order to provide different velocity sensitivity, every keybed key has a 1 pole, 2 position switch. Depending on the time taken to transit between the contacts (ie the velocity), a MIDI note velocity value needs to be assigned (between 1 and 127). That is done using a look-up table so that different touch sensitivity profiles can be used. In the project above the different velocity profiles in the look-up table are indexed using a switch.

In the case of the Pa2x and Pa1x and almost certainly also in the M3 and the Radias, the look up table for touch response is in system software on the main board. The touch sensitivity is configurable from a system parameter input by the user, and stored in SSD memory.

Therefore my conlusion is that the interface between the keybed and the main board is presenting the raw undoctored "make and break" information for each of the two contacts per key. A simple IC on the keybed debounces and serializes the contact information to reduce the amount of wiring. It is then up to additional hardware and software on the main board to time the transitions between one key contact and the next, and to calculate the velocity, and then look up the midi velocity value corresponding to it from the look up table on the main board, indexed using one or more parameters input by the user, stored in SSD.

I've not seen the circuit diagrams for the M3 and Radias but I have studied the circuit diagrams on several other Korg keyboards, Pa2x and Pa1x included. And I was an electronics & microprocessor software designer before retiring.

Best regards,
Rob