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Hi -

I want to achieve the following on a Mod-7 program:

Have LFO pitch modulation rate to be velocity sensitive; but also for the modulation rate to then slow down over the sustain time of the note. Is this possible and what's the best way to approach this? I'm trying various tricks at the moment but it's not there yet; and thought I'd ask in the mean time in case someone can see how this could be done.

I haven't used AMS mixers before, but feel that applying LFO(1) to the oscillator should do it; where LFO is modulated by AMS mixer 1, with AMS mixer 1 taking velocity as source one feeding into an EG shaped like a downward ramp. But I can't see an option where AMS1 is fed into AMS2, to achieve this.

Any thougths or pointers?

Thanks,
Kevin.

Seems like Amt A x B should do the trick.

- Dan

Hi Dan -

Thanks for the pointer. I'm trying it and I'm close - I have an LFO vibrato that's fading according to an EG; but I need to make the rate both velocity sensetive and EG sensetive. AXB is definitely the AMS Mixer type - I just need to figure out how to apply it!

Cheeers,
Kevin.

Kevin Nolan wrote:Hi Dan -

Thanks for the pointer. I'm trying it and I'm close - I have an LFO vibrato that's fading according to an EG; but I need to make the rate both velocity sensetive and EG sensetive. AXB is definitely the AMS Mixer type - I just need to figure out how to apply it!

Cheeers,
Kevin.

I'm not sure that I understand your question.

Hi Dan -

Actually I wasn't asking for more advice - your pointer to the AxB AMS mixer type is useful - but seeing as you seem to be offering more advice


.... I'm trying to create a MOD-7 plucked bell/mallet type sound with polyphonic LFO/modulation that is velocity and EG sustain-time rate sensitive. For each given played key - pitch LFO (vibrato) intensity, rate and 'slowing down rate over the sustain part of an envelope' are all velocity sensitive.

While I believe I can eventually achieve this monophonically (on a given LFO using the AMS Mixer type you point to – though I haven’t achieved even that yet); alas it will not be polyphonic - all held notes will experience LFO control by the velocity of the last note played.

I'm not at my OASYS right now, but now wonder if perhaps one of the waveshapes could be used to provide/emulate ‘polyphonic vibrato’ that is velocity sensitive to rate – with each note's waveshape rate and intensity independent to its key velocity and hence give a kind of polyphonic LFO effect whose rate is velocity sensitive. But I also want to have the LFO slow down over the sustain part of the note and for that to be perhaps velocity sensitive.

To be honest I'm not making this up myself. Rather, true to my keen interest in the music of Vangelis, I'm trying to have MOD-7 emulate what I believe is an FM sound from the Yamaha GS1 used in Movement 4 on Vangelis’s album ‘Mask’; where there's a wonderfully expressive plucked bell/mallet type sound where, according to the velocity of the note, the LFO intensity, rate and slowing-rate seem to be velocity sensitive (and perhaps polyphonic). It makes for an incredibly expressive and 'acoustic-like' effect. The part being played by Vangelis is a solo line so it may be that the GS1 was not polyphonic in this regard. This may be achieved in the EX5 through its FDSP because it's modulation effects are truly polyphonic (to 16 parts); though I haven’t looked into it yet.

Another possibility would be use polyphonic ring modulators at low rate and velocity controlled to emulate a kind of polyphonic and velocity controlled tremolo. This IS also possible on the EX5 - where each of about 10 Ring modulation parameters, includign intensity and rate can be velocity controlled and provide for stunning polyphonic modulation (where at low rates you get a kind of polyphonic tremolo and at higher rates the metallic nature of the played sound varies according to velocity, polyphonically). You mentioned before that the Mod-7 Ring Modulators are polyphonic - but on examination (so far) there seems to be little control on the ring modulation parameters and to be honest I can't hear much difference between a MOD-7 sound with the Ring Modulator wet or dry. Admittedly I haven't delved into it in detail yet.

So overall I'm looking for polyphonic control on LFO and other modulations; and especially of velocity control of intensity, rate and 'slowing down rate'!

Not sure if you get what I mean; but if you do then any thought on this or other interesting polyphonic modulation or LFO possibilities would be welcome.

Cheers,
Kevin.

Kevin Nolan wrote:However, while I believe I can eventually achieve this monophonically (on a given LFO using the AMS Mixer type you point to – though I haven’t achieved even that yet); alas it will not be polyphonic - all held notes will experience LFO control by the velocity of the last note played.

I'm not sure what you're thinking of here. All LFOs other than the Common LFO are per-voice, aka polyphonic. Same with the AMS Mixers, and same of course with velocity. So, this collapse to monophony wouldn't happen.

Try it and see!

Kevin Nolan wrote:You mentioned before that the Mod-7 Ring Modulators are polyphonic - but on examination (so far) there seems to be little control on the ring modulation parameters

Yes, of course. Ring modulators themselves are all very simple; they are all about the input signals. Other than wet/dry mix, there's nothing else to control. With the EX5 ring mod you noted, it sounds like it had a simple built-in oscillator to use as one of the inputs - which is essentially what the VPM oscillator is, except of course that the VPM oscillator is almost infinitely flexible (and with many more than 10 parameters).

Kevin Nolan wrote:and to be honest I can't hear much difference between a MOD-7 sound with the Ring Modulator wet or dry. Admittedly I haven't delved into it in detail yet.

Try going through the step-by-step tutorials in the Parameter Guide ("Ring Modulation," starting on page 338). IIRC, I literally wrote this for you, from your feedback during testing.

- Dan

For further info, you might also be interested to read the comments under "5–4e: Ring Modulator," starting on page 363. Depending on the frequency ratio between the two inputs, the effect may be anything from subtle to extreme.

- Dan

Dan -

I can't believe it - are you honestly saying that MOD-7, 52 note polyphonic, can avail of 52 x 4 LFO's? That's up to 208 LFO's whose parameters can be dynamically altered, 4 per voice. If so - Oh my friggan God.

This puts MOD-7 into an altogether different and frankly staggering domain. We're talking polyponic modulation with vast but useful possibilities, performance orientated.

While polyphonic aftertouch would have been magnificant, polyphonic LFOs, especially dynamically controlled with velocity sensing, makes OASYS an instrument beyond anything I could have hoped for.

Is this the same for AL-1 and STR-1?

Thanks for the parameter guide reference also - much appreciated.

Also - I'm reading the MOD-7 document in fine detail right now - including the tutorial. I remember from my beta testing of MOD-7 that you wrote this tutorial and I have to say (reading it in detail for the first time only now !!) - that it's absolutely fantastic. The examples, and the flow are absolutely perfect and I'm rapidly learning MOD-7 from it. Coming from the SY77 stable, my major difficulty was visualising the MOD-7 Patches as they look different to Yamaha FM Algorithms; but having read your tutorial I'm over that hurdel and MOD-7 is becoming easier to program. There are many other excellent aspects to the tutorial - such as your pointers to how different patchings lead to differen types of sounds; extremely valuable (and necessary) short cuts across various MOD-7 GUI pages and so on. So congratulations on an excellent job on that tutorial - I strongly recommend it yo anyone interested in MOD-7.


Kevin.

Kevin Nolan wrote: I can't believe it - are you honestly saying that MOD-7, 52 note polyphonic, can avail of 52 x 4 LFO's?

Yes.

Kevin Nolan wrote:Is this the same for AL-1 and STR-1?

Yes.

For all synths, HD-1 and EXi, all modulation sources and destinations are per-voice ("polyphonic") except where explicitly noted in the manuals. This includes envelopes, LFOs, step sequencers, key tracking, AMS mixers, Wave Sequence AMS outputs, etc.

Exceptions include:
* Original MGs in MS-20EX and PolysixEX (use LFOs 1-4 for per-voice modulation)
* Common LFO and Common Step Sequencer ("common" key track are parameterized per-Program, but act per-voice)
* Vector CCs (but Vector Volume is per-voice)

By turning Key Sync off in per-voice LFOs and Step Sequencers, you can make them act as if there were only one for all voices, similar to the Common versions.

Thank you for your kind comments regarding the tutorial; I'm glad that it's being helpful!

Best regards,

Dan

It would be nice if you posted a clip of the sound. Can you?
This seems like a very interesting quest you are on. Thanks.

Great to see someone getting so much of a kick out of this stuff ... the Oasys synth engines are full of these "oh wow, that is cool" finds