Korg Forums

Hi, this is a quote from Eric J Sawyer sometime ago over at the KLF because he asked the question better than I could.

Greetings all OASYS nuts,
After nearly five years of honing my combi creation skills for the Maroon Karma, I can honestly say I still have room to grow. Nevertheless, the temptation to migrate up to the OASYS I could not resist and as many of you know, I entered the O-realm this spring. That doesn't mean I will be abandoning the red baron, but my sights are set on the Big O. I am amazed at the potential sonic acrobatics available in the OASYS. However, my limited initial explorations with my O76 (I’m a bit late on the early scene) have left me with a few yearnings for some insights into programming for this marvelous machine.

What are the chances that one or a few of the OASYS combi design team can share their process with us. It would be very instructive if any one of that illustrious group could spell out the steps taken from empty combi to finished product in much the same manner as Ozzy did with his Combi Creation Tutorial on designing, “ErasureHead”. What do you say, Paul; any chance you could do the same for one of your OASYS creations? Jerry, Dan, Jack, Stephen, I know you are swamped constantly, but who better to ask than a busy person. close quote

New Oasys owner hear, I'm still interested in learning how you go about making combis if your still around hear, I know this tread is some years old. I'm still trying to understand what exactly is a combi and how it is meant to be used and how to go about making them from the ones in Oasys and making them from scratch on a more deeper level. i think my problem my be when,where and what efx to use.i am very humbled by The Karma-Lab's team work. I didn't even know how to ask this question until I found Eric's old post.Thanks Eric,Paul and Thanks Stephen for being you know the Karma King .

Peace
Rocness

Hi
maybe I better put this question another way, here it goes.

Is there anybody out there making there own combis from scratch,anywhere
close to the ones from Karma lab ? If so can you share your approach
(efx routing or whatever).I'm still new to the Oasys but it seems combi's
are very important, I do electronic dance music (deep house, techno, lounge,etc...).
And I can use all the combis I can get in that area.
My combis are ok but the ones from karma labs are amazing I mean the sound quality from the ones I heard was perfect. Am I missing something?

Thanks

I'm not going to be able to give you the information you want - I’m not an expert Combi maker. However, as even Eric indicates in his post - he has spent 5 years making Combis and still feels he has a lot to learn!

The way I view it is this - a top notch Combi is its name sake - a complete 'combination' of programs, effects, drums, karma GE's and so on associated with a given genre of music. So you had better get to know a given genre of music really well first; then perhaps you'll be in a position to start making Combis that work well. There's no substitute for using your plain musicality / performance ability as best you can in this too. Even after that you'll have to spend a lot of time setting up different controllers and scenes appropriate to a live performance. You’ll also have to be on top of music production techniques / understanding because appropriate effects are also vital.

The other thing to bear in mind is that there's lots of detail in a given Combi - so there's no substitute to taking one or two existing ones and just spend lots of time analysing them. I've done this, and regularly do it with AL-1, MOD-7 and STR-1 programs to understand them. It's not a fun job as you are 'reverse engineering' and it's tedious.

Also remember - hearing/using someone else’s Combi sounds, by default, fresh and initially incomprehensible because you were not involved in the steps to put it together. It may be that to Eric or Stephen their Combis do not sound as fresh to them as they do to us - so some of your Combis may be better that you give yourself credit for, it’s just you’re perhaps used to them?

Having said all of that – by far your best option is to go buy Catalyst1 over at www.karma-lab.com. This is a collection of 32 fabulous Combis – but even more importantly for you is that they come with a 70-page pdf document with a 2 page description of each Combi. So reading these and playing around with each one may provide the insight you seek. While playing around with each one you might also attempt to develop a methodology for analysing them – something like: go through each GUI page in a systematic order identifying key points on each page, followed by starting the Combi Karma by playing just one note with Latch on and then switch between scenes one by one; then adjust faders and knobs one at a time to hear their effect; finally followed by jamming along to feel how it actually plays.

Another approach for learning Combi’s could be to go over to www.karma-lab.com and watch the Video Tutorials / Trade Show performances by Stephen Kay so you can actaully see the master at work with particular Combi’s; then go to your OASYS and play with those same Combi’s yourself (I’ve tried this but it's limited - Stephen Kay is just too good!!)

But the bottom line is – even Stephen Kay takes several days work to make just one Combi - and he invented Karma. And I'd say his days are long days. So it'd be reasonable to suspect that it would actually take perhaps a couple of weeks of hard work - at least several dozen hours od hard concentration and organization - for a novice to create a top notch Combi. There's LOTS of detail to engage and there's no short cut.

Kevin.

Hello there Rocness,

My name is John "Skippy" Lehmkuhl and I'm one of Korg's programmers. Many Combinations in the OASYS are my babies (Always Watching You...., Dreaming without Sleeping, Pod Doors are Opening, Monster Power Synth, Skippy Wants to Dance!, Prisoner for Life, Genetik Introduktion, Breakbeat Vector jam, Safe from the Storm, Lucid Dreamin' Rap Star and that is just in the A Combination Bank). I love the sound and power along with the flexibility of the OASYS engine - a couple suggestions:

1) Study the Combinations that are really rocking your world - find the specific instruments and follow thru their Inser Effects that are used. Is the drum Kit IFX set to DRM or is the entire kit going thru a single chain of effects ? Or, are separate Timbres designated for the different drums (Kick, Snare) and then processed thru separate compressors or other specialty effects ?

2) Do you want to include your own KARMA or is this just to find sounds that work and you will use either the built-in or an external sequencer to program your song ? If you are going with the later, then you can modify any of the existing Combinations (switch out a bass, change the drum kits once you know suggestions #1, change pad patches) and use the existing Combinations more as templates that you work from.

Just a couple quick suggestions. There are many more I could throw at you but lets start with these and I'll reply once you add some feedback to this thread.

Regards,
John "Skippy" Lehmkuhl

Kevin Nolan wrote:I'm not going to be able to give you the information you want - I’m not an expert Combi maker. However, as even Eric indicates in his post - he has spent 5 years making Combis and still feels he has a lot to learn!

The way I view it is this - a top notch Combi is its name sake - a complete 'combination' of programs, effects, drums, karma GE's and so on associated with a given genre of music. So you had better get to know a given genre of music really well first; then perhaps you'll be in a position to start making Combis that work well. There's no substitute for using your plain musicality / performance ability as best you can in this too. Even after that you'll have to spend a lot of time setting up different controllers and scenes appropriate to a live performance. You’ll also have to be on top of music production techniques / understanding because appropriate effects are also vital.

The other thing to bear in mind is that there's lots of detail in a given Combi - so there's no substitute to taking one or two existing ones and just spend lots of time analysing them. I've done this, and regularly do it with AL-1, MOD-7 and STR-1 programs to understand them. It's not a fun job as you are 'reverse engineering' and it's tedious.

Also remember - hearing/using someone else’s Combi sounds, by default, fresh and initially incomprehensible because you were not involved in the steps to put it together. It may be that to Eric or Stephen their Combis do not sound as fresh to them as they do to us - so some of your Combis may be better that you give yourself credit for, it’s just you’re perhaps used to them?

Having said all of that – by far your best option is to go buy Catalyst1 over at www.karma-lab.com. This is a collection of 32 fabulous Combis – but even more importantly for you is that they come with a 70-page pdf document with a 2 page description of each Combi. So reading these and playing around with each one may provide the insight you seek. While playing around with each one you might also attempt to develop a methodology for analysing them – something like: go through each GUI page in a systematic order identifying key points on each page, followed by starting the Combi Karma by playing just one note with Latch on and then switch between scenes one by one; then adjust faders and knobs one at a time to hear their effect; finally followed by jamming along to feel how it actually plays.

Another approach for learning Combi’s could be to go over to www.karma-lab.com and watch the Video Tutorials / Trade Show performances by Stephen Kay so you can actaully see the master at work with particular Combi’s; then go to your OASYS and play with those same Combi’s yourself (I’ve tried this but it's limited - Stephen Kay is just too good!!)

But the bottom line is – even Stephen Kay takes several days work to make just one Combi - and he invented Karma. And I'd say his days are long days. So it'd be reasonable to suspect that it would actually take perhaps a couple of weeks of hard work - at least several dozen hours od hard concentration and organization - for a novice to create a top notch Combi. There's LOTS of detail to engage and there's no short cut.

Kevin.

Kev thanks for giving me some insight I was starting to think I could not truly build a professional combi but now I know that it takes hard work to do it and like you said, it evan takes Stephen Kay sometime to build one and he invented KARMA.
Thanks

realkuhl wrote:Hello there Rocness,

My name is John "Skippy" Lehmkuhl and I'm one of Korg's programmers. Many Combinations in the OASYS are my babies (Always Watching You...., Dreaming without Sleeping, Pod Doors are Opening, Monster Power Synth, Skippy Wants to Dance!, Prisoner for Life, Genetik Introduktion, Breakbeat Vector jam, Safe from the Storm, Lucid Dreamin' Rap Star and that is just in the A Combination Bank). I love the sound and power along with the flexibility of the OASYS engine - a couple suggestions:

1) Study the Combinations that are really rocking your world - find the specific instruments and follow thru their Inser Effects that are used. Is the drum Kit IFX set to DRM or is the entire kit going thru a single chain of effects ? Or, are separate Timbres designated for the different drums (Kick, Snare) and then processed thru separate compressors or other specialty effects ?

2) Do you want to include your own KARMA or is this just to find sounds that work and you will use either the built-in or an external sequencer to program your song ? If you are going with the later, then you can modify any of the existing Combinations (switch out a bass, change the drum kits once you know suggestions #1, change pad patches) and use the existing Combinations more as templates that you work from.

Just a couple quick suggestions. There are many more I could throw at you but lets start with these and I'll reply once you add some feedback to this thread.

Regards,
John "Skippy" Lehmkuhl
www.pluginguru.com

Wow, what a treat and honor it is for me to talk with you. I listened to every combi you pointed out and they are all magical. I also heard your
music productions which are amazing my 3 favs right now are Healing,
Lost in the Waters of Today and All Night in the City.You have some of the best deep moving pads I have heard (Healing). This is also the type
of music I am producing (deep house,tech house,broken beat lounge,samba,soundscapes).I need to learn how to make my drums slam
like yours for the clubs. I have so many questions but I'm going to take your advice first and get to it right now. Please don't disappear I need your help. Thanks

peace

Not to divert from the topic, but just wanted to say -- Skippy, I'm a huge fan of your work!! (& would be very happy to pay for more of it, if you were so inclined and if that were permitted under the terms of your relationship with Korg).

Now back to our regularly scheduled topic on combi creation...

Mr. T-Man, that is a kind offer. I'm very busy with my ongoing Korg work as well as my web site. I have 72 patches (and 2 free video tutorials) for Native Instruments FM8 I've programmed that are available at pluginguru.com and I'm about to release a power pack for Stylus RMX 1.8. Between those projects and having a family life, there is not much time left for anything else. Anybody can email me directly and we can talk.

MrT-Man wrote:Not to divert from the topic, but just wanted to say -- Skippy, I'm a huge fan of your work!! (& would be very happy to pay for more of it, if you were so inclined and if that were permitted under the terms of your relationship with Korg).

Now back to our regularly scheduled topic on combi creation...

Having said all of that – by far your best option is to go buy Catalyst1 over at www.karma-lab.com. This is a collection of 32 fabulous Combis – but even more importantly for you is that they come with a 70-page pdf document with a 2 page description of each Combi. So reading these and playing around with each one may provide the insight you seek.

I wish such information was available regarding the shipped factory
combi's. I find sometimes interesting things happening when I use switch 1 or 2, slide my finger across the ribbon, joystick up or down, etc.
There is no doumentation I guess for the standard combi's. Does anybody have a list/description?? And the Karma scenes on top of that can do quite different things, musically. 3X128 combi's, no documentation I guess.

Rudolf

@Skippy: thanx for sharing your ideas here - and I enjoy your Combis, too - real kuhl!
Off topic: When will the power pack for RMX be ready? I am not aware of another update for RMX - they just released 1.7 with the time designer, didn't they? And that BTW was a great update!

Skippy,

just visited your website and sorry to be off topic - some nice tracks and some really great photos!

peter

Rocness:

Stephe Kay has come to your rescue!! :

http://www.korgforums.com/forum/phpBB2/ ... hp?t=40915

Kevin Nolan wrote:Rocness:

Stephe Kay has come to your rescue!! :

http://www.korgforums.com/forum/phpBB2/ ... hp?t=40915

Thanks Kev, cool videos The Oasys continues to amaze me as i get more
familiar with it. Seems that the Dyna Compressor is really good for dance music I like it alot with O verb and the new presets are turning out to be a major plus.
Would be cool if we could still get the add on effects but looks like thats not
going to happen .It seems that The Oasys is more than capable to make
any genre of music. I need more Combis with this sound http://xtcradiofm.com

peace

Hi Roc, what sounds are you indicating from the link? There is just so much going on in that video, not to mention a full symphonic orchestra.

Hi Kevin,
Sorry to have missed thanking you for your great comments. I always appreciate your take on the various topics here as well as your thumbs-up comments on my work. Thank you.

Hey, Skippy. I'm a big fan of your sound designs and music. I have to agree with Peter. Top shelf.

Cheers,
Eric