Korg Forums

I got the KP3 pretty recently, love it but am getting really frustrated. It seems very difficult to get loops to sync up exactly, I can can get them pretty right on but I'm finding the editing functions to lack enough accuracy to make a perfect match. I would like to use the KP3 in a live setting and i don't wanna be dicking around with a beat slowly slipping out of phase (unless i plan it that way, which sounds SICK!)
I've gone thru the manuel and searched out examples on youtube, I feel I have a pretty good understanding of the KP's functionality but maybe someone knows some tricks that could help me out? Would be very grateful.

Also, is it possible to edit the volume of one of the samples banks while still hearing the other banks play? (.e. can i tweak the volume on bank A with out all the other banks ,B C and D, turning off while I'm doing so? I'm finding my inability to do this counter-intuitive to what I love so much about korg in the first place, their's real time, hands on editing capabilities. Maybe there's a trick to that, too.

One last note, all my gear is hardware, I'm not linking up to computers. thanks!!!!

I am not having issues syncing loops running within the KP3 itself, that's no problem, My issue is with syncing loops to external hardware, even after running a midi clock in, syncing the tempo.
I would like not to have to keep stopping and starting the sample's on the 1, because ideally I would like to use the KP3 in real time and I'd like to be able to "bump" my loops on to the beat exactly, with no stops and starts (too needy?). I know this is supposed to be possible thru the "0.0" adjustments using the program knob/wheel but I'm finding that the each .1 + or -.1 is often not fine enough. Further more I can't ascertain wether or not when I bump up to +.1 or -.1 ,for example, does the timing of when I bump it back up or down again effect the sync?

(In my daydreams I could use the touch screen to bump the beats, but that's neither here nor there)

Thanks once again for any insights.

Have you tried hitting [SHIFT] + [ALIGN] on the beat?

I think this post contains answers to your questions.
http://www.korgforums.com/forum/phpBB2/ ... 25&start=0

Editing the volume : shift + bank for the bank you want to edit, then you can change the volume of this bank with the fader on the screen of the KP

Scott M2, Yes, that works great for aligning the 4 internal banks, The problem I'm having is syncing up to an external drum machine which is acting as the beat master. No problem setting the BPM's externally, my issues arise in getting my samples synced in perfect time. I can usually manually catch a pretty tight loop but I find that my drum machine and KP3 slowly start slipping out of phase. I have used the function that allows you to shift the start of the beat by degrees of .1, but have unfortunately found this to be unsatisfactory in it's finite capabilities. Thanks for your response, if you have any other ideas I'd really like to hear them.

Didjeko, Thanks for the thread link, it's proved very helpful. I've still not resolved my issue. I can see others have had success using USB links, but i don't have much of a computer other than this "email machine", so that's not currently an option for me. Any other suggestions would be awesome.

As far as the volume control goes, I have been able to control the volumes in the way that you (and the manual) described but when adjusting the volume of an individual bank in this manner, all the other banks stop playing until the bank being adjusted is unselected. I am often building or subtracting loops one on top of the other live, so when all of a sudden they all drop out except the one I need to edit, it tends to sound like doo-doo. Know any tricks to get around that?

thanks again for the help!

Ianofslippers wrote:The problem I'm having is syncing up to an external drum machine which is acting as the beat master.

Yes, that's your problem.

Try the following:

Set the drum machine to 120BPM.
Set the KP3 to 120BPM.
Start the drum machine.
Wait for a downbeat at the beginning of a measure.
Hit the KP3 sample + PadA button.
Wait for 16 beats until the button turn yellow.
Immediately hit the stop button on the drum machine.

You will now be hearing the 16 beat loop. It will stay in perfect sync with itself forever. You've captured the pattern, the drum machine is no longer needed to maintain the loop. Now you can go back to the drum machine, cue up changes - (you can turn down/off the KP3 input until you're ready), then hit start on the drum machine while on the KP3 you can (1) stop the current loop, (2) keep the current loop going and hear them both, (3) fade out the current loop, (4) sample the new pattern to another pad, and (5) simultaneously do an effect on the transition (before, during, or after sampling).

In other words, the looper becomes the master. The drum machine becomes the deck that you're cueing. The loops that are running on the KP3 will all stay in sync, so long as they were sampled in sync.

You'll get the best out of the KP3 if you change your perspective to view the KP3 as the "thing that keeps the music layers going - stops them - and affects them", then it can free up your other gear to cue things to add additional layers instead of having to do them all in real-time. When looping - the KP3 becomes the master. If it's only acting as an effector - then there's nothing to keep in sync with the upchain gear.

Check out Beardyman on youtube. Notice that everything is always in sync in his performance. He's using the looper as the master sync. Then he adds beatbox layers to it in sync with the KP3. Then the KP3 keeps everything in perfect sync. He needs no midi to keep in sync. With no midi attached, you can sync your drum machine to the KP3. Just hit play on the downbeat and listen for the audio sync while in cue mode. If you hit it offbeat, it doesn't matter - nobody but you can hear it - so try again. When you get good audio sync - it only needs to stay in sync for 16 beats while you sample the next pad. If what you hear on the KP3 loops is in audio sync with each other - they will stay that way.

xmlguy-

I think Ian is just trying to figure out ways around the dropped sync over time (which as far as I know, there is none).

He can get all his loops from the KP3 synced up, that's not the issue. The issue is when you keep your looped samples playing on the KP3 over a period of time, it slowly drops out of sync with all external sources, be it his drum machine or a basic metronome, regardless of any midi syncing.

Ian-- having said that, this is just an inherent problem with the KP3, it's a pretty killer issue. As far as I know, there is no fix yet. Also, this is not the only unit with metronome issues. For example, I have an Akai XR-20 drum machine (which I absolutely love), but when it's recording a pattern and I'm drumming in a complicated or fast beat, the internal clock/metronom "slows down" for lack of a better word, and thus gets all out of sync with anything else that's playing.

Hopefully Korg knows about this falling sync issue and will have a fix in 3.0. Until then, you may have to change the trigger type on your KP3 to play the loops from the beginning on trigger (can't remember what this one is called, but you need OS 2.0 for the different trigger types). This way at least you can self correct the loops from the beginning of a measure every now and then to resync which will buy you some time.

Do you know of any hardware audio loopers that keeps in sync with external gear?

To do so requires 100% accurate beat detection and slicing, with time-stretching, in real-time. I don't think you're going to ever see that on the KP3. Midi/sequencer drum machines are completely different - they're designed to trigger sampled snippets/hits/notes. They should be able to trigger them in absolute sync via midi clock. Any sample they play is usually over and done with very quickly, so it's no problem to trigger the next hit faster or slower. You can't sync 16 beat audio loops the same way without causing nasty audio side effects to whatever is currently playing, such as if you try to change the BPM 8 beats into that loop.

Ianofslippers wrote:Didjeko, Thanks for the thread link, it's proved very helpful. I've still not resolved my issue. I can see others have had success using USB links, but i don't have much of a computer other than this "email machine", so that's not currently an option for me. Any other suggestions would be awesome.

As far as the volume control goes, I have been able to control the volumes in the way that you (and the manual) described but when adjusting the volume of an individual bank in this manner, all the other banks stop playing until the bank being adjusted is unselected. I am often building or subtracting loops one on top of the other live, so when all of a sudden they all drop out except the one I need to edit, it tends to sound like doo-doo. Know any tricks to get around that?

thanks again for the help!

If you already have loops playing, hitting [shift] + [sample bank] should not stop the loops from playing! All that should happen is that the button of the selected bank should start flashing and its volume will be shown on the screen.

xmlguy wrote:Do you know of any hardware audio loopers that keeps in sync with external gear?

sorry I should clarify, I'm not talking about just keeping in sync with your other gear, I'm talking about the KP3's inherent problem with maintaining a desired tempo.

(and to answer your question yes, my drum machine, set at xx bpm, plays perfectly with another source -- be it a xx bpm song, or another drum machine set at xx bpm)

very simply, the problem with the KP (and I do appreciate you defending it vigorously, I love the machine but this is a pretty ridiculous flaw) is that if you set it at say 140 bpm, and right next to it put a metronome set at 140, after a couple minutes the KP just doesn't keep up. for some reason the hardware just seems to veer away.

and I should add, this generally isn't a problem for people who are doing a performance with the KP3 looped, and only the KP3 looped-- say I sampled a set of beats or phrases on the KP3, loop them, and then jam along on a synth or guitar. that works absolutely fine.

HOWEVER, if you're trying to juggle the KP3's looped samples, while accompanying with anything else - drum machine, separate looper/pedal, sampler, MPC, what have you - the burden is on you to re-sync the KP3 every few minutes.

for someone like Beardyman (his talent with this machine simply blows me away), where everything is done on his KP3(s), this slight desyncing bug doesn't matter to the normal ear.

all that being said, I'm very curious as to how Korg will handle the Kaossilator Pro.. will they manufacture it with the same inherent tempo flaw as the KP3? the way I see it, if they fix it on the KOP, they're gonna have to release a fix for the KP3 since a lot of people will be using both side by side. otherwise, they'll have to leave the flaw in the KOP and just end up having 2 machines in their catalogue that have straying tempo problems.

darthballs wrote:

xmlguy wrote:Do you know of any hardware audio loopers that keeps in sync with external gear?

(and to answer your question yes, my drum machine, set at xx bpm, plays perfectly with another source -- be it a xx bpm song, or another drum machine set at xx bpm)

The XR-20 is not an audio looper. It's a midi looper. I've owned one. The patterns are midi loops that trigger rom samples.

Here's a list of hardware audio loopers:

http://www.loopers-delight.com/tools/tools.html

It's no problem keeping a midi looper in sync with external gear, as I explained previously. The XR-20 is a nice drum machine, very much tilted towards rap/r&b/hiphop kits though. Does yours get ultra noisy if you plug anything into the mic jack. Mine did, and I had to return it.

Hey Guys/Gals, Thank you for all the input.

I'm starting to think that my KP3 might be kinda broken (just bought it new) because my volume adjustment mode does not work the way everyone else describes.

It's clear to me, now, that the KP3 is so close to being exactly what I was looking for ( regardless of volume issues) but not yet there... and expensive. Still, it rules, but not as much as it should. What can I say, anyone else?