Hello, I'm a psy/goa trance addict that would need some tips from some of you guys or girls that make electronic music. I am a REAL newbie so help me out eh?
For a few months ago I bought a korg kaossilator (a dynamic phrase synthesizer) and I started doing some tunes on it, I think its great for making small loops but I lack some things:
*Playing music that is longer than 16 beats without restarting/clearing the song
*Modifying the sound in various ways since
*Better sound quality, compared to the drum/synth/general sounds in a normal song a kaossilator sounds much worse
What I want is some solution so I can play:
*equipment that doesnt need a computer or screen
*that I can play the music live without pre recorded stuff, just start playing. This is mainly because I love to just sit with some friends and take turns to make some tunes.
*I would rather not use a keyboard but prefer to use the arpeggio functions since its faster, but I can play a bit... (or is it needed?)
I am not interested in programs like Abelton live or Fruity Loops, since I dont particulary enjoy sitting in front of my computer when making music, neither do I think that it should take such time. I like the "on the fly" way much better.
Then I started to research different "sound machines", like in this song the guy uses a kaossilator, kp3 and sp 404 to make good tunes:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kdyZNm8U7dE
I think he uses the kaossilator to give sound, and as a synth using the arpeggio. Then he uses the sp 404 to save clips of the song (since its a sampler) and the kp3 to modify the sound.
Since I aim to make music that has the same style as my favourite artists like shpongle, kraftwerk and astral projection I think I would need a mixer/effects sampler to make the different goatrance sound "morphs" and also a sampler to make something longer than a few seconds and to join different parts of a song. It also seems I would need to either get a kaossilator pro because I dont particulary like the kaossilators sound quality.
The question I have for you is:
Is my assumption that all three equipment types are needed to make EDM music?
And is there any alternative gear in the approx same price class? (each of these components costs about 350USD)
Do you have any experience with the quality of these equipments?
Some of these products have overlapping functions, is there any way to avoid that?
Does the kp3 support mixing of each of the four tracks individually?
Can I adjust the volume on each unit individually?
Need some help with equipment, kaossilator pro, kp3 or sp404
Moderators: Sharp, X-Trade, Pepperpotty, karmathanever
If you want to make your own tracks from scratch (forgetting live performance for the moment), you need some kind of multitrack recording device.
Typically these days I think most people do use software for that purpose - recording tracks to build up a song. And Ableton Live is probably the closest thing that will help you achieve what you want to do.
Most of the recordings you hear - even live ones - are processed after recording - each track may have effects added, EQ, importantly compression. Then there is the mastering stage too. All of this is involved in producing a complete piece of music and is known as recording, mixing and mastering.
Recording - is where you lay your tracks down
Mixing - is where you set the relative levels and apply effects to tracks, sometimes you'll rearrange things too
Mastering - is where you prepare the final output for a transit medium - mp3, CD, etc. It involves balancing the overall sound to best suite how it will be listened to. Mastering in particular is more scientific and less creative, whereas you can get very creative in recording and mixing processes.
BTW I am a big Kraftwerk fan too. But they are an actual band and have four people playing keyboards at once. Very different from what you are trying to achieve.
As tracks get more complicated, it gets more expensive with hardware to maintain the same sound and production quality, whereas in software you keep adding tracks and effects until you run out of processing power. even then you can bounce down and continue adding more.
I do think that the KOPro will provide you with better sounds. But keep your KO1 too!
Sorry I can't offer any specific product suggestions.
Typically these days I think most people do use software for that purpose - recording tracks to build up a song. And Ableton Live is probably the closest thing that will help you achieve what you want to do.
Most of the recordings you hear - even live ones - are processed after recording - each track may have effects added, EQ, importantly compression. Then there is the mastering stage too. All of this is involved in producing a complete piece of music and is known as recording, mixing and mastering.
Recording - is where you lay your tracks down
Mixing - is where you set the relative levels and apply effects to tracks, sometimes you'll rearrange things too
Mastering - is where you prepare the final output for a transit medium - mp3, CD, etc. It involves balancing the overall sound to best suite how it will be listened to. Mastering in particular is more scientific and less creative, whereas you can get very creative in recording and mixing processes.
BTW I am a big Kraftwerk fan too. But they are an actual band and have four people playing keyboards at once. Very different from what you are trying to achieve.
As tracks get more complicated, it gets more expensive with hardware to maintain the same sound and production quality, whereas in software you keep adding tracks and effects until you run out of processing power. even then you can bounce down and continue adding more.
I do think that the KOPro will provide you with better sounds. But keep your KO1 too!
Sorry I can't offer any specific product suggestions.
Current Gear: Kronos 61, RADIAS-R, Volca Bass, ESX-1, microKorg, MS2000B, R3, Kaossilator Pro +, MiniKP, AX3000B, nanoKontrol, nanoPad MK II,
Other Mfgrs: Moog Sub37, Roland Boutique JX03, Novation MiniNova, Akai APC40, MOTU MIDI TimePiece 2, ART Pro VLA, Focusrite Saffire Pro 40.
Past Gear: Korg Karma, TR61, Poly800, EA-1, ER-1, ES-1, Kawai K1, Novation ReMote37SL, Boss GT-6B
Software: NI Komplete 10 Ultimate, Arturia V Collection, Ableton Live 9. Apple OSX El Capitan on 15" MacBook Pro
Other Mfgrs: Moog Sub37, Roland Boutique JX03, Novation MiniNova, Akai APC40, MOTU MIDI TimePiece 2, ART Pro VLA, Focusrite Saffire Pro 40.
Past Gear: Korg Karma, TR61, Poly800, EA-1, ER-1, ES-1, Kawai K1, Novation ReMote37SL, Boss GT-6B
Software: NI Komplete 10 Ultimate, Arturia V Collection, Ableton Live 9. Apple OSX El Capitan on 15" MacBook Pro
Thanks for the answers X-Trade, I really appreciate it!
At least I understand why everyone uses macbook+abelton live these days!
And it seems that sound quality depends much on the Mastering step also which is not included when playing with a kaossilator.
So if I want to take kaossilator playing a step further, that is to be able to atleast record longer songs, I figure I would need a sampler.
It seems that the KP3 has both sampling and effects, while the SP-404 only has sampling (am I correct?) but that the SP-404 is better at that job in some way...
In the video however the guy had both machines, and I wonder why. And I also wonder if its worth getting a kaossilator pro if I have a kaossilator ko1, the greatest feature with the kaossilator pro is that it has 4 loop recorder banks, but as I understand the KP3 also has that, and that input from a KO1 can be played into the banks of the KP3 !
At least I understand why everyone uses macbook+abelton live these days!
And it seems that sound quality depends much on the Mastering step also which is not included when playing with a kaossilator.
So if I want to take kaossilator playing a step further, that is to be able to atleast record longer songs, I figure I would need a sampler.
It seems that the KP3 has both sampling and effects, while the SP-404 only has sampling (am I correct?) but that the SP-404 is better at that job in some way...
In the video however the guy had both machines, and I wonder why. And I also wonder if its worth getting a kaossilator pro if I have a kaossilator ko1, the greatest feature with the kaossilator pro is that it has 4 loop recorder banks, but as I understand the KP3 also has that, and that input from a KO1 can be played into the banks of the KP3 !
The KP3 is not strictly a loop recorder and it is more of a sampler that can record loops.
Equally you can record external instruments like your KO1 into the KOPro. The main thing about the KOPRo is that it has the four loop banks. It also has some effects but its main focus is on instruments whereas the KP3 focuses on effects.
I imagine the SP404 can store and play back more samples. The KP3 can only have four samples/loops - one on each bank button. To load and play more, you have to stop everything to load another to replace one of those four.
Obviously you can sample into the KP3. without having to load or save anything, which would be a slightly smoother workflow. But there are problems with the KP3 and the KOPro keeping in sync with other instruments and even eachother - after a while they tend to drift out quite badly.
The KP3 is great as an effects processor which is probably how it is being used in that video, but if you don't need its sampling or 8 recall buttons, then the mini-KP is also great and a lot cheaper. You could possibly even get two or three for the same price.
Apparently the SP404 does have some effects too, but the important thing is that it can have up to 12 samples mapped out across the pads, and I suppose they could be longer than those on the KP3 - although I couldn't find anything specifying that.
Have you also checked out the microSampler?
Alternatively, some kind of sampling workstation like an MPC or the ESX may suit you.
You can also achieve some mastering in hardware using high quality effects processors - look into rackmount stereo compressors/limiters, EQ, or hardware mastering processors which you can put at the end of your signal chain.
Equally you can record external instruments like your KO1 into the KOPro. The main thing about the KOPRo is that it has the four loop banks. It also has some effects but its main focus is on instruments whereas the KP3 focuses on effects.
I imagine the SP404 can store and play back more samples. The KP3 can only have four samples/loops - one on each bank button. To load and play more, you have to stop everything to load another to replace one of those four.
Obviously you can sample into the KP3. without having to load or save anything, which would be a slightly smoother workflow. But there are problems with the KP3 and the KOPro keeping in sync with other instruments and even eachother - after a while they tend to drift out quite badly.
The KP3 is great as an effects processor which is probably how it is being used in that video, but if you don't need its sampling or 8 recall buttons, then the mini-KP is also great and a lot cheaper. You could possibly even get two or three for the same price.
Apparently the SP404 does have some effects too, but the important thing is that it can have up to 12 samples mapped out across the pads, and I suppose they could be longer than those on the KP3 - although I couldn't find anything specifying that.
Have you also checked out the microSampler?
Alternatively, some kind of sampling workstation like an MPC or the ESX may suit you.
You can also achieve some mastering in hardware using high quality effects processors - look into rackmount stereo compressors/limiters, EQ, or hardware mastering processors which you can put at the end of your signal chain.
Current Gear: Kronos 61, RADIAS-R, Volca Bass, ESX-1, microKorg, MS2000B, R3, Kaossilator Pro +, MiniKP, AX3000B, nanoKontrol, nanoPad MK II,
Other Mfgrs: Moog Sub37, Roland Boutique JX03, Novation MiniNova, Akai APC40, MOTU MIDI TimePiece 2, ART Pro VLA, Focusrite Saffire Pro 40.
Past Gear: Korg Karma, TR61, Poly800, EA-1, ER-1, ES-1, Kawai K1, Novation ReMote37SL, Boss GT-6B
Software: NI Komplete 10 Ultimate, Arturia V Collection, Ableton Live 9. Apple OSX El Capitan on 15" MacBook Pro
Other Mfgrs: Moog Sub37, Roland Boutique JX03, Novation MiniNova, Akai APC40, MOTU MIDI TimePiece 2, ART Pro VLA, Focusrite Saffire Pro 40.
Past Gear: Korg Karma, TR61, Poly800, EA-1, ER-1, ES-1, Kawai K1, Novation ReMote37SL, Boss GT-6B
Software: NI Komplete 10 Ultimate, Arturia V Collection, Ableton Live 9. Apple OSX El Capitan on 15" MacBook Pro
Hi X-Trade,
perhaps an Korg Emx-1 would be cool for you! It is a Groovebox which is perfect for building up Electro or Goa songs live.
Look at this video what you can achieve in 6 minutes:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n_dPrujJ63E&feature=fvw
I own one and it's a great fun!
You can also build complete songs out of your patterns and record the knob-tweaking to the song.
perhaps an Korg Emx-1 would be cool for you! It is a Groovebox which is perfect for building up Electro or Goa songs live.
Look at this video what you can achieve in 6 minutes:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n_dPrujJ63E&feature=fvw
I own one and it's a great fun!
You can also build complete songs out of your patterns and record the knob-tweaking to the song.
Hello and thanks for the answers!
I was away for a while and couldnt answer.
Since my music vocabulary sucks I decided to throw up a small page with the sounds that I would like to make with my future "musicstudio" when playing around.
I recorded some bits from some trance songs and put them up on http://gambit.0sites.net/music/
And if you know the proper terminology for the sounds just tell me
X-Trade:
Do you have any idea on how much music one can record and play on the KP3 without stopping the music playback? SP 404 seems to have hours of sampling time according to http://www.roland.com/products/en/SP-404/features.html
And you are right that the effects processor of the KP3 sounds sweet, but does the mini-kp have almost the same effects? But if I got an sp 404 and a mini kp I would need to plugin even an additional instrument which as I understand can make the music sound worse if too many instruments are serial plugged.
I have seen the microSampler but it seems too much of a keyboard, I am more into using the arpeggio on a groovebox or kaossilator.
roxxx303: so how does an EMX-1 compare to a kaossilator-pro or kaossilator?
I was away for a while and couldnt answer.
Since my music vocabulary sucks I decided to throw up a small page with the sounds that I would like to make with my future "musicstudio" when playing around.
I recorded some bits from some trance songs and put them up on http://gambit.0sites.net/music/
And if you know the proper terminology for the sounds just tell me
X-Trade:
Do you have any idea on how much music one can record and play on the KP3 without stopping the music playback? SP 404 seems to have hours of sampling time according to http://www.roland.com/products/en/SP-404/features.html
And you are right that the effects processor of the KP3 sounds sweet, but does the mini-kp have almost the same effects? But if I got an sp 404 and a mini kp I would need to plugin even an additional instrument which as I understand can make the music sound worse if too many instruments are serial plugged.
I have seen the microSampler but it seems too much of a keyboard, I am more into using the arpeggio on a groovebox or kaossilator.
roxxx303: so how does an EMX-1 compare to a kaossilator-pro or kaossilator?
+1roxxx303 wrote: perhaps an Korg Emx-1 would be cool for you ...
An EMX is likely going to serve your needs perfectly. You're about where I was several years ago: Wanting to get into making original electronic music...wanting to stay away from computers..wanting a single piece of gear that you could do all the basics on...needing something that could put everything into perspective while not breaking the bank. After lots of research the EM-1 Electribe is where I went, then graduated to an EMX-1 when those came out. I'm 100% without a doubt certain I went the right route and based on what you say above you should grab one.
If I sound like a Korg rep or religious loonie, pardon my excess
but you'll get a lot closer to doing the things X-trade discusses above with an EMX. You can probably find one in your price range (used if not new) and they're intuitive enough that you'll learn very quickly. It's also capable of really high-quality sounds once you've mastered it. OK maybe not quite Simon Posford, but hey a $10k rig can't easily be duplicated for 5% the price 
EMX-1, KP3, MachineDrum UW+, Octatrack, FCB-1010 Pedal, Mackie PA, Taylor T5
http://dubathonic.bandcamp.com/
http://dubathonic.bandcamp.com/
Hello again.
I just wanted to say that I bought my EMX-1 a few days ago and I feel
very happy with it! Thank you for the great advice and.
When I came home with the Box I felt like a little boy again playing with my new toy
Sitting there and testing out all the settings was pure joy, and the machine sounds soo nice compared to my kaossilator, I am so happy that I asked on the net before buying since I wouldnt have found out this machine without you guys!
I already managed to get some groovy tunes together and I like to work with the EMX-1.
I just wanted to say that I bought my EMX-1 a few days ago and I feel
very happy with it! Thank you for the great advice and.
When I came home with the Box I felt like a little boy again playing with my new toy
Sitting there and testing out all the settings was pure joy, and the machine sounds soo nice compared to my kaossilator, I am so happy that I asked on the net before buying since I wouldnt have found out this machine without you guys!
I already managed to get some groovy tunes together and I like to work with the EMX-1.