Korg Forums

Hi.

I have this strange problem with my O, regarding very big differences in volum individually on each note.
Yesterday, I got my O back from service, due to an velocityerror on one of the key's.
In my ears it seems like there is a huge variation in velocity in the samples also. For instance. Can any of you check out this. Use the A03 Deep.... piano and check if there is a large difference between c-d-e-f starting C4 and up.
I have a F sounding high as h...
This is not an hardwareproblem, because if I transpose -1 the error is on the E.
In my opinion this problem makes it impossible for me to use this synth.
Its possible that the problem grows bigger since i've had an velocityissue earlier, but it is sertanly a big problem for me.

K

I cant' understand the exact nature of your problem. Are you saying that for EXs2 Pianos only, there is a velocity response difference with samples?

Is this in amplitude or timbre?

Is there an unevenness in the velocity response for other samples and for other synthesizers engines (AL-1, CX3....)?

I suggest picking a very simple synthesizer sound from AL-1, Polysix and then clear all velocity sensing and see if there is a difference in volume - in other words to see if there is actually a physical problem with the keyboard (though you seem to indicate the issue transposes).


I know there have been discussions before about a 'ringing' to one or two of the ESx2 sample notes - perhaps you're noticing that?

Is this a subtle issue that you become fixated on or is it a blatant and obvious problem? If associated with your repair - can you ask your service center to look at it again - perhaps there's a case to make that they did not calibrate the keyboard properly.

In any case if you could describe the nature of the problem better then perhaps we could either set your mind at rest (ie live with the quirks of the EXs2 samples!) or recommend that you send your OASYS back to the service center where they should cover all costs if they did not calibrate the OASYS properly with the service.

Kevin

Hi Kevin.
Thanks for answering.
I'm not the best in english, but I'll try to get this the right way.
It seems to me that this is an isolated EXs-2 problem.
If i uses the int bank pianos (the factory sounds) the whole keyboard seems good and the velocity seems to be the same for them all.
But if I try the Grand piano samples (EXs-2) then there is a lots of notes sounding higher than the others. For example. The User A00( if you have the grand bank at the default place) will give an high note at G#5. (velocity)
But the Deep (A03) would give an high (velocity) note at F5.
If i transpose plus or minus for example -1, then the high vel note goes down to G5 / E5.
I've tried to record this in the seq, as I did in the case with the velocity hardwareproblem. When I did last time, the event editor showed about 10-18 higher velocity on a sertain note, than the others.
That problem is fixed, but still there is an velocity/expression problem with some notes.. If I record this as I did for the H/W prob, the difference is almost not mentionable in the event editor, but is very large by hearing the sounds.
I would not say that this is ringing sound, but I would rather say that it sounds just the way it did when the velocityswitch was broken.However, since there is no readings nor an problem to all sounds, I'm stuck with the sample-idea.
In my head, I'm wondering if this problem has grown bigger for each OS upgrade.
My O was not shipped with restore CD's, so I'm not able to test this.
Hope you understand my answer.
K

knudar wrote:Hi Kevin.
Thanks for answering.
I'm not the best in english, but I'll try to get this the right way.
It seems to me that this is an isolated EXs-2 problem.
If i uses the int bank pianos (the factory sounds) the whole keyboard seems good and the velocity seems to be the same for them all.

Great - so it sounds like your OASYS is OK, physically and electronically. That's the most impotant thing!

knudar wrote: But if I try the Grand piano samples (EXs-2) then there is a lots of notes sounding higher than the others. For example. The User A00( if you have the grand bank at the default place) will give an high note at G#5. (velocity)
But the Deep (A03) would give an high (velocity) note at F5.
If i transpose plus or minus for example -1, then the high vel note goes down to G5 / E5.
I've tried to record this in the seq, as I did in the case with the velocity hardwareproblem. When I did last time, the event editor showed about 10-18 higher velocity on a sertain note, than the others.
That problem is fixed, but still there is an velocity/expression problem with some notes.. If I record this as I did for the H/W prob, the difference is almost not mentionable in the event editor, but is very large by hearing the sounds.
I would not say that this is ringing sound, but I would rather say that it sounds just the way it did when the velocityswitch was broken.However, since there is no readings nor an problem to all sounds, I'm stuck with the sample-idea.
In my head, I'm wondering if this problem has grown bigger for each OS upgrade.
My O was not shipped with restore CD's, so I'm not able to test this.
Hope you understand my answer.
K

I'm not 100% clear on the nature of the problem as you describe it. However - there have been previous discussions here on a perhaps similar problem, again around notes F5, G5; so I suspect that you're identifying the same issue. I'll have a listen to EXs2 over the weekend to see if I can identify a similar issue - I have to be honest that though I could sense the ringing mentioned before, it has never bothered me. This may be something you just have to live with.

I can't see why it would have changed in any way with the version of the OASYS, unless Korg implemented some sort of lossless compression algorithm on the EXs2 piano samples that inadvertently affected this situation - there's always a remote possibility of that.

Without trying to reduce the issue, perhaps your listening conditions are playing a part in this too? Too often we listen back to sample instruments, say on headphones or on near field monitors and at reasonably high volumes, hence allowing our ears to micro-analyse the specifics of the sampled notes in a totally unnatural way. We'd never judge a piano sound on the basis of putting our ear next to each string in isolation (OK I know piano tuners and top players listen at this level but you know what I mean generally). Overall, I've found EXs2 to be a top-notch sampled piano, but it does need a little work to listen to it properly. In particular I find it 'too up front' as per the provided presets, so I tend to mellow it a little (SW2 and ribbon controller), vary the piano stretching parameter and add a little reverb and so on; but most importantly , try to gauge my listening conditions / volume to map closer to those of sitting at an actual piano - so lower volume, slightly more mellow and with its own 'space'. Perhaps try those and see if it feels / sound different.

you might actually be identifying some irregularities on the mapping from actual velocity character of the original piano and its representation on the OASYS. Nevertheless, unless you have some means of applying accurate velocity to multiple keys, I don't see how you can record the velocity level of separate notes into the sequencer and expect to make a judgement. After all, the very best pianists, however good their sense of velocity, only work within the 9 or 10 dynamic levels at most (ppp, pp, p, mp, mf, f, ff, fff ) specified even in the works of the likes of Debussy, so MIDI velocity recording is well capability of recording inconsistencies in your (or any of our) playing that we're not really that much in control of.

(I remember getting my SY99 with the MIDI demo by Chick Corea and slowing it down about 4 times - it was reassuring that even this maestro’s rapid fast scalic passages revealed quite a 'human' degree of rhythmic and velocity inconsistency!!).

Hope this helps but feel free to post more info if you can to see if anyone here can nail down what your issue is.

Kevin

knudar -


I played EXs2 program UA 000 carefully last night. I played the noted from C4 - G4 carefully at different velocities, and there's no doubt that they sound very consistent up to about mf in dynamics. However, at about mf to f, F4 definitely has an 'after attack' slightly metallic/ringing sound to it that lingers during the decay phase which the other notes around it do not have. This must be the 'ringing' sound mentioned before and perhaps what you noticed?

It does indeed transpose up an octave when the program is transposed up. So if this is what you are noticing then it is simply a character of the sampling process and there's nothing that can be done about it. But it’s clearly a character of the piano Korg actually sampled so at least you know that this inconsistency is based on a real inconsistency in an actual acoustic instrument.


Kevin.