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"Facets"

Posted: Tue Dec 28, 2010 2:38 pm
by UCanDream
This happens to be the very first song that I recorded into the Oasys' sequencer when I first got the "O" out of the box. Ultimately, this song ended up being one of the tracks that will be on my CD. This is the untouched version as I wrote it in 2007--- not even completed.... The good thing is that it isn't quite long enough to be horribly tormenting! Hehe. The completed version will be on my website in a couple of weeks. It's a little rough around the edges but hey, i I was just trying out my new Korg and this is what I threw down in haste.

By the way, I haven't provided the site addy because it is still WAY under construction. In fact, iPage (my host) has been having technical problems that kept many users from being able to edit content so that aspect of my project really got jacked for time. In a couple weeks, tops, I'll lead you guys to the site.

Here's "Facets" http://www.supload.com/listen?s=AWpDKt


Cheers.
UCanDream

Posted: Tue Dec 28, 2010 2:53 pm
by peter m. mahr
David,

thumbs up! :wink:

how long did it take you to get this done? How many of the sounds are not OASYS?

You have a very good feeling for melodies!

Peter

ps: like the melody and what the Piano plays... although for me it is coming to an abrupt ending :wink:

Posted: Tue Dec 28, 2010 3:10 pm
by UCanDream
Hey Peter.

This is almost like being on the phone with you, lol.

I did this short blip of a song in 3 hours right after I unboxed the Oasys. I found myself very inspired (within my limited abilities) and this little tune rolled off my fingers in a matter of minutes. The rest of the three hours were spent trying to figure out the sequencer and effects. All of the accompaniment came quickly to me. There were no audio tracks involved (way over my head at the time)....so everything you hear (not "here" like my typo in a previous post) is coming from the Oasys. If I sent you the .sng and pcg files they would play on your "O."

Abrupt ending?? No! Are you kidding? I thought my ending was quite lengthy. Hahaha....not! Remember, this was just a quick little tune that I threw together as I was feasting my senses on my new $10,000 toy. I didn't take the time to "finish and polish" this song back when I wrote it. In fact, "Facets" will be finished tonight or tomorrow. I will post the completed version when I get 'er done.

I'm glad you like this one. It's a fun little song. To me there is a slightly sad tilt to it....hard to define for me in precise terms.

On another note, I will work on "Leaves" and see what I can come up with. Your suggestions are gold nuggets to me! Thank you, Peter. This is really valuable stuff. I ageed with your "flute" idea but found myself resisting the idea that the Sax does not belong in there. Though, from an orchestral point of view you may have a strong point and a good sense of "right." I'm going to explore this. (This belongs in my other thread but I will leave it here without repeating it over there.)


Cheers buddy.
UCanDream

Posted: Tue Dec 28, 2010 3:24 pm
by jgsidak
Dave,

This song is terrific. Inspiration comes in a flash, and this song is proof.

Greg

Posted: Tue Dec 28, 2010 5:30 pm
by peter m. mahr
Hi David,
UCanDream wrote: This is almost like being on the phone with you, lol.
Indeed :wink:
UCanDream wrote: I did this short blip of a song in 3 hours right after I unboxed the Oasys. I found myself very inspired (within my limited abilities)


.. which limited abilities? Isn't that called in english "fishing for compliments" ? :wink: This track, or tune as you name it, is for sure NOT the result of limited abilities.
UCanDream wrote: There were no audio tracks involved (way over my head at the time)....so everything you hear (not "here" like my typo in a previous post)


... this is Vienna calling :wink: .
UCanDream wrote:is coming from the Oasys. If I sent you the .sng and pcg files they would play on your "O."


Have to listen to the guitar again. Found it very good, sitting well in the song and the mix. The old rule "if it sounds right it is right"
UCanDream wrote: Abrupt ending?? No! Are you kidding? I thought my ending was quite lengthy. Hahaha....not! Remember, this was just a quick little tune that I threw together as I was feasting my senses on my new $10,000 toy. I didn't take the time to "finish and polish" this song back when I wrote it.


I was just complaining as I could have listened to it much longer....
UCanDream wrote:In fact, "Facets" will be finished tonight or tomorrow. I will post the completed version when I get 'er done.
Great!
UCanDream wrote:I'm glad you like this one. It's a fun little song. To me there is a slightly sad tilt to it....hard to define for me in precise terms.
Probably therefore I like it that much!

Visiting the forum thru the holidays is really worth it :-). Not much traffic, but as we like to say "Qualität vor Quantität"

Peter

Posted: Tue Dec 28, 2010 6:56 pm
by UCanDream
Thank you, Greg.

And thank you Peter.

Okay, after this I better keep my butt in the studio and get something done. I do have an opinion question. You know....some queries are fact related, some opinion related. So what is your opinion on this: "Leaves" is by far the oldest song that will be on my CD. However, I have one other song called "Radiance" that was written and copy righted in 1984 that is slated to be on the CD. It is 6 1/2 minutes long! I already am tipping the scale (or shall I say, "clock") as far as length of program for the total run time. Right now, "You Can Dream" (the CD, not the song- having the same title) is about an hour in length. Some of the other songs are also quite long, being in the 6 and 7 minute range. I will provide a link to that song as soon as it is converted and uploaded (within an hour or so) and get your take on whether the song even should go on the CD. To me it sounds like it may be a little dated. Of course, this version is new and I have attempted to revive it so it doesn't sound so 80's'ish. The one thing I want to avoid is having "filler songs" on this or any CD I ever release. The original recording of this song was recorded with a Yamaha CP30 and a Prophet 5 doing the strings, brass and bass. A Yamaha RX11 took care of the drums for me. Trust me, it was a dreadful recording! LOL. So the Oasys, EX5 (for the sax), M3, and Triton did wonders for it. The EL Piano is the stock [A-41] "Hard Tines" on the 01/W Pro which took the place of the atrocious E-Piano sound that the CP30 produced. (I wish I still had that thing.)

I don't want to leave the impression that I am teetering about my project here. There are certain songs that are simply going to be on the CD for sure. "You Can Dream", "Sage", "All That Matters", "Lingering", "The Quest", and a few others. I am only unsure about this particular song. If you guys think it sounds dated then I may consider leaving it off. Obviously, I value the opinions of others. Particularly, musicians that are clearly serious and deeply immersed in their music. I figure if members here have reservations about certain things then it gives me one last opportunity to make any needed or desireable changes before I get committed to a stack of boxes full of CD's.

In an hour or so the song link will be posted in this thread. I don't want to risk ruffling any feathers by starting post after post of originals. We've seen some guys get pretty irritated about that. Little babies! LOL, just teasn'....kind of. Hehehehe

Oh Peter, toward the end of "Radiance" the sax was played without the use of a breath controller. To me it doesn't come across like it played from a keyboard...unlike the flute on "Leaves." Give me your first impression- I might be fooling myself. But I definitely agree with what you said about the flute. I don't like not being able to fake people out. Some guys (Stephen Kay, Jordan Rudess, others.) have really perfected their technique for playing "other instruments" from the keyboard. That can be a real struggle for me. I do my best job when I close my eyes and pretend that I'm not playing a synth. That seriously has worked for me....at times.

Alright, enough of me for now. I'll drop "Radiance" in here shortly.


~ David

Posted: Tue Dec 28, 2010 7:46 pm
by peter m. mahr
UCanDream wrote: Okay, after this I better keep my butt in the studio and get something done. I do have an opinion question. You know....some queries are fact related, some opinion related. So what is your opinion on this: "Leaves" is by far the oldest song that will be on my CD. However, I have one other song called "Radiance" that was written and copy righted in 1984 that is slated to be on the CD. It is 6 1/2 minutes long! I already am tipping the scale (or shall I say, "clock") as far as length of program for the total run time. Right now, "You Can Dream" (the CD, not the song- having the same title) is about an hour in length. Some of the other songs are also quite long, being in the 6 and 7 minute range. I will provide a link to that song as soon as it is converted and uploaded (within an hour or so) and get your take on whether the song even should go on the CD. To me it sounds like it may be a little dated. Of course, this version is new and I have attempted to revive it so it doesn't sound so 80's'ish. The one thing I want to avoid is having "filler songs" on this or any CD I ever release. The original recording of this song was recorded with a Yamaha CP30 and a Prophet 5 doing the strings, brass and bass. A Yamaha RX11 took care of the drums for me. Trust me, it was a dreadful recording! LOL. So the Oasys, EX5 (for the sax), M3, and Triton did wonders for it. The EL Piano is the stock [A-41] "Hard Tines" on the 01/W Pro which took the place of the atrocious E-Piano sound that the CP30 produced. (I wish I still had that thing.)
I have a pragmatic point of view. Put all songs together. Then you are already in problems to bring them into a row :wink: ... at least I do. Check if they fit together. If they do not, change the row or do not put all of them on this CD. Who says that a CD must keep a content of 60mins of music?

Concerning the song you mentioned, why don't you try out different arrangements or other drums, different tempo, etc. A while ago I loaded an old song and played it more or less with completely "wrong" sounds... that was fun and kind of "random" arrangement. Most of it was of course not worth to be taken into account, but there were some things I was not thinking of.....
UCanDream wrote: Oh Peter, toward the end of "Radiance" the sax was played without the use of a breath controller. To me it doesn't come across like it played from a keyboard...unlike the flute on "Leaves."
I am a bit confused as I was "complaining" about the "Sax" in "Leaves" ... but maybe I need some sugar now as I am hypoglycomiac at the moment :wink:

Peter

Posted: Tue Dec 28, 2010 8:49 pm
by UCanDream
Great ideas. :idea: :D

Ahhh... see, I wasn't sure if you were referring to the flute on the M3 or the sax on the VL70M. By the time reference you made to the song I took you to mean the flute. In any event I will focus some attention on that part of "Leaves." I think that both the flute and sax may need some work or may need to go altogether. Duno quite yet.

Well, here is "Radiance." http://www.supload.com/listen?s=DBYLWS ...I'm not really seeking praise of any kind, but rather if the song has much current day appeal. I realize that is based on opinion but that's okay. If my target audience (hence, potential customer) in genereal doesn't really care for a certain song then KF members probably didn't care for it too much first. See, there's my guage. You poor guys are my test audience. LOL...harsh, isn't it!? Hehe. Me posting my music here is never a, "I hope they like it" scenario. Instead, it hopefully is a relatively accurate meter as to the overall disposition of the listeners to my music. If something is half way good then I figure the song is half finished. If I were to get some negative feedback or vibes on a particular piece then it wouldn't make it to the CD. If a song is widely appealing then I figure I did enough of the right stuff to justify putting it on a release.

Alrighty, back to the studio I go.


Later. Oh yeah, some fructose syrup for your blood suger... :beer Uh huh... you thought that was a beer didn't ya? Hehe!


UCanDream

Posted: Wed Dec 29, 2010 2:20 am
by jgsidak
David,

This song is very carefully constructed. It shows a lot of craftsmanship in making a pop song. The chord progressions, key changes, orchestration, etc. all sound very sophisticated. I particularly like the lift of the key change at the end.

In short, I liked the song (although it is not the style of music I would go out to buy). Here are some comments, general and specific:

(1) The intro (electric piano?) sounds too dated for today. Maybe different instrumentation for the same parts would make all the difference. You need to hook the listener in the first 10 seconds for a pop song. You don't want the listener to spend those 10 seconds thinking, "What song from the 1980s is this?"

(2) It matters a lot whether you make this song an instrumental or a ballad with a strong vocalist. As an instrumental, it might draw favor among "smooth jazz" fans, but I suspect it is too lush for them--there is not much soulfulness. But I could easily imagine someone like Celine Dion or Josh Groban singing lyrics to this song. Better yet, craft it as a duet between a guy and a girl--that gives you complete license to be sentimental. I think that the big vocal send-up is more the market for this piece. Do you have lyrics? This sounds like a classic love song.

(3) If this composition is to remain an instrumental piece, and if it does not grab the smooth jazzers, then it sounds like a TV theme song to me. The only problem is that the melody is too long to be compressed to the 30 to 45 seconds of opening credits for a show. I don't think it fits into the John Tesh genre because it does not have a hard enough beat and is not bombastic. It is an unapologetically sentimental song, which is great.

(4) I hear a lot of David Foster in your chord progression and arrangement. This song could have been used in St. Elmo's Fire. That David Foster connection is partly what made me think of Celine Dion. This might make you cringe, but I also heard some Neil Diamond. Don't laugh--anyone who owns the copyright on "California Dreamin'" and dozens of other pop hits is sitting pretty. What these reactions are telling me is that your target audience is not the riff-oriented rocker. No offense intended, but this is "easy listening" music--it is soothing and enveloping, not confrontational in the least. It also has no trace of blues or funk, save a couple of blue notes on the sax. You need to think about who listens to such music, who buys it, where, and how do they enjoy it. Are you targeting people who buys CDs and download songs, or are you targeting people who select songs for insertion into other content such as TV shows, movies, commercials, documentaries?

(5) The acoustic piano is playing some country-style chords. You might turn this into more of a Nashville sound. It doesn't rock hard enough to be "new country," but you could pitch it as a country pop ballad (as in point 2 above) to a singer like Kenny Rogers. That option, however, would probably require a lot more reworking than the Celine Dion-Josh Groban duet I imagine above.

(6) Another idea: Since it is a sentimental piece, think about whether you could turn it into a Christmas song. The good thing about Christmas songs is that they have a long shelf life. They get heavy airplay and other non-radio performances for 4 weeks, year after year. You would need good lyrics and a strong vocal performance (again, you could have a guy/gal duet and make it a Christmas tear jerker). If this idea pays off, I hope you will invite me someday to your ski chalet overlooking Aspen. In all seriousness, check out Richard Page's Christmas song, "I Always Cry at Christmas." (http://www.richardpagemusic.com/music/) It's a beautiful song, but so is yours. Of course, Richard's song has a vocal performance by one of the best male vocalists in the business. Richard works a lot with David Foster, so his song may give you more insight into what I am hearing in terms of the potential in your song.

If I think of other possibilities, I will post them.

Overall, I don't think this piece fits well beside the others of yours I have heard, mainly because it does sound dated, but also because it sounds more lush in the Josh Groban sense.

Incidentally, what did you use for the tenor sax? It sounded quite a lot like Dave Boruff's playing on "Love Theme from St. Elmo's Fire (Instrumental)." See http://www.lastudiomusicians.org/davebo ... tepage.htm

Keep up the good work.

Greg

Posted: Fri Jan 14, 2011 11:54 pm
by jgsidak
And you didn't need a Kronos to do it, either.

Posted: Sat Jan 15, 2011 3:38 am
by jgsidak
And you make great music despite not having a Kronos.