M-Audio Venom Review

[ozy]

1) I am not a pianist, I am a synth player.

The synthesizer is an instrument, not a generic name for "anything which doesn't require knowing how to play but makes some kind of sound anyway".

Which takes us to the following story.

2) Imagine.

A Fender Jazz Bass [not the rare vintage issues] can be had, used, for prices which vary from 700 to 1000 euros.

Even the worst mexican models, battered conditions, are honest to fair to good instruments.

Imagine now.

Imagine that 6 japanese and chinese companies release at the same time the following instruments, almost identical:

name: Fenga Bass, Fenda Bass, Fending Brass, Phen-Fen Bass, F-1-Bang

material: pink plastic body, steel neck. another: white steel body, bamboo neck, wool strings

technology: the electronics come from used cell phone mics and car radio EQs.

The bass can somehow sound, but when slapped doesn't slap, when tapped doesn't tap, and if you try extracting harmonics by gently fretting strings the harmonics are not there.

It can just produce a pale imitation of a generic bass sound.

And it costs 500 euros.

It is heavily advertised, visually glamorous, and available in every shop near you.

Imagine that every other day somebody came to your favorite bass players' forum,

and started saying:

"I want to play bass. Please tell me: what's better: the Fang Fang of the Fen Shui? I have been told that they have more or less the same technology as Fender Basses".

Every other day. Ever f*ck*ng other day.

And you've been playing bass, and setting money apart, for buying a good bass, for years. You choose your strings carefully, weigh the purchase of a fuzz or wha pedal for weeks. Try extracting vintage sounds from a minor model. You sandpapered the frets off yourself, at night.

But the FendaBenda Bazz has a nice preset which emulates the fretless bass. The emulation is: all frets play the same note: a slightly bent-up G.

Now, you tell me.

What would you answer to the prospective Feng Bang and Fending Juzz buyers?

"buy a second-hand, battered, but real bass, man, learn playing it, and forget that s**t! That's s**t. here's the list of good used alternative! That's junk for losers!".

Am I so wrong?

[Aciphecs]

I understand your point and appreciate your sincere reply. But, I still think there is a place and market for these lower-end products.

Thanks

[ozy]

there is a place and market for these lower-end products.

this is what I was afraid of.

BTW: you can't say "lower-end" and post that avatar at the same time.

It's not correct.

The gaia's lower-end looks more like this:



You keep asking, you will certainly find somebody who'll tell you that it's "fat".

Now you know better.

[Aciphecs]

Haha! Nice and tasty low-end there, I bet Ben might make a move on that even

[kimu]

i mean, miniAk share the same engine of the Micron that is a very powerful engine with the shame of awful user interface...

did you ever play the Miniak? Really?

Forget the theories about its "parent". Did you try extracting sound from it?

owned a micron and had the changes to try miniAK for a while. I did not found the miniAK to be particularly different from micron, even i admit to prefer micron

[ozy]

This just in:

bass players on synths


http://www.korgforums.com/forum/phpBB2/ ... 438#377438

see what I mean?

[BasariStudios]

Lower Ends discussions...not good...distructs me and my signature.

[Aciphecs]

Ozy,

I looked into some of your suggestions...

I know that a used JP8000 costs less than a Gaia

False!

JP8000 $679 (cheapest used found online)
Gaia $538 (brand new)

a used matrix-6 costs half a Miniak

False, actually it's the other way around!

Matrix-6 $650 (cheapest used found online)
Miniak $340 (brand new)

a mopho costs less than a venom

Strike Three!!

Mopho $695 (cheapest used found online)
Venom $475 (brand new)

Now, we're not talking sound quality here, it was strictly price that was in question. I do understand that they are in the price range though and I will suggest my bandmate looks into these before purchasing the R3.

Thanks again

[ozy]

considering that euro prices are usually 20% higher than equivalent US prices

matrix6: I sold one at 400 euros six months ago. didn't lose money. I had bought it a 700 in bundle with the access programmer, which is worth 300 more or less.

mopho: forget the keyboard version (also because you won't probably find one used), the mopho module can be found used at 250 eur. there's plenty around because it was superseded by the tetr4 and by the key version.

miniak: it's priced at 580 new in europe (450/500 online), can be had at 450 used. In this case also: I bought one, gave iot back, Have seen it in the shop's window at 450.

believe me, the R3 is a nice machine (I was a bit harsh in comparing it to the miniak or the gaia. it's the same target but a better machine, coming from the radias tree),

but a used real analogue can be had for peanuts and it's worth it.

Keep the "fender bass" metaphor in mind.

Make the "guitar test": play a riff on a cheap Virtual analogue while a fuzzed guitar is playing in the same room (live, not recorded).

Then play the same riff on a real analogue - equally, in a duel with a real guitar.

I won't tell you what happens. Try (you can do that in a shop as well).

Since that's what's gonna happen in real life to you (playing against real drums, bass, guitar)... I recommend you take the test.

Everybody is good at making a synth sound amazing in a mp3. A nice pad in backgroun, vst drums, a well-leveled polite bass... and there's the "Roland Crapiola Plus Pro" shining in all its splendor. wow! Supersaw!

Then you go live, and it projects its presence at... 6 feet. It doesn't even reach the drummer. No matter how much you crank up the amp.

Last discussion I had on the subject, was with a guy who asked on a forum: "which compressor, enhancer and aural exciter [5000 worth of processors] should I add to my synth? I just can't hear it in the band mix..."

THAT's when you remember old Ozy's comments, and you sigh about the 100 or 150 bucks you "saved".

[cotler]

Remember that music is art, so comparing synths is a bit like comparing shades of red. The most important thing is how it fits into what YOU are painting.

If you went completely on price and specs you may as well fold in some of the better software VAs that are out for Windows and Mac. There are some very powerful choices in software, like the Native Instruments and Arturia offerings, or the THOR synth in Reason.

And there's the Micron, a used Prophecy or MS2000, etc. The list goes on and on.

The fattest synth in the world isn't going to help me if I don't have the money for it. And the synth you wouldn't spend 5 minutes with might be the toolset I've been looking for. But within your economic constriants, the main questions should be "Do I connect with this instrument?" and "Can I make sounds that fit into MY music?"

The rest, in MHO, is shades of red.

[ozy]

And there's the a used Prophecy or MS2000, etc. The list goes on and on.

boy, these are three steps above the gaia or similar.

and being used they give you more for the same price.

Good, I agree.

I recommended some real analogues but some oldies but goodies VA share the same "bang for the buck" factor.

The power in a mix is different though.

If our friend is in rock, a matrix6 is still tougher than a ms2000.

But a ms2000 kick's the gaia's ass big time.

The prophecy is not even a VA in the commonly shared meaning, really.

It's a synth on its own, with some nice analoguish sounds, but with a personality of his own.

Digital, but very expressive.

I am not so fond of the micron, but that's definitely in the "shades of red" domain.

[tpantano]

ozy, is there a language gap making you sound like more of an arsehat than you are?

And for the record, Ozy, I did not get the R3 to be a DJ. Maybe your definition of DJ is too loose. I've only used a hypersaw in a song once.

As for why I can't pop '$250 more' for a better synth (which, when I purchased my R3 used, wasn't true, with my R3 costing $350 used and radias going for $700+), I live in the woods and can't get any employment at my age. I had to use money I've saved up from birthdays, holidays and housework. I would have LOVED to get a radias instead.

I vote this thread gets locked.

It's strayed completely off-topic.

[ozy]

Hey man,

1) this thread is not about you. Welcome, but this is not about you.

2) I'd never met you you until a couple of days ago, when YOU asked for support from the forum about a vocoded sound:

you are so skilled in synthesis that you DIDN'T even realize it needed a vocoder to be realized,

I TAUGHT YOU the why and HOW with the utmost kindness,

you BALKED at the help, REFUSING evidence, because you're way too smart for using a vocoder, you need "multiple stratified formants" and "various guttural resynthesis VSTs" to synthesize a "yabbadabba" saw

I finally convinced you, gave you detailed instructions so that you could accomplish your task with a simple R3 or Radias,

AND IN THE END YOU COME HERE AND CALL ME AN "ASSHOLE"?!?

Listen man,

why don't you go and buy all the synths you want until you find a preset which matches the cover you need,

and spare my time?

My God, bass players... First they choose bass, and feel dimished by reference to the brother who plays lead guitar. Next they seek vengeance (and try humoping the guitar players's girl) by a) showing off, b) composing, c) writing lyrics, d) fiddling with keyboards, e) drinking more that everybody else. Finally they become universally reknown authoritarian jerks. or self-destructing.

Why is iot that just 5/100 of drum players or sax players buy a synth, and every single bass player I know feels the need of playing keyboards?

From my bandmate Stefano when I was 10, to Roger Waters to... name them. Won't name sadly deceased ones out of human respect, but...

Sorry for the harsh retort, man, but you better think about it.

You just went for the cheapest synth you could find, no matter its sound, and 12 hours later you were on a forum looking for "what other equipment should I use" for a SINGLE sound that your synth CAN indeed play.

Think about it. Knowledge, and spending money wisely, is better than throwing money at problems.

[tpantano]

Hey MAN,

1) this thread is not about you. Welcome, but this is not about you.

Point taken.

2) I'd never met you you until a couple of days ago, when YOU asked for support from the forum about a vocoded sound:

That's fine and dandy, but I've helped quite a few people with their own patching and support.

you are so skilled in synthesis that you DIDN'T even realize it needed a vocoder to be realized,

Vocoding is the only section of the R3 I had not delved deeply into beforehand, as I previously had no use for it except for the occasional attempt at a cover.

I TAUGHT YOU the why and HOW with the utmost kindness,

That is very true, and I appreciate it. You're attack on dubstep at the end was the thing that annoyed me a little. However, it was the ways in which
you attacked R3 and other low-end synth owners in this thread, be it that they're all stupid DJs or ex-bass players, that annoyed me.

you BALKED at the help, REFUSING evidence, because you're way too smart for using a vocoder, you need "multiple stratified formants" and "various guttural resynthesis VSTs" to synthesize a "yabbadabba" saw

Now now, no need for the caps. I definitely was not that extreme. I was questioning to better understand why the synth was vocoded, on not some insanely modulated saw orgy.

I finally convinced you, gave you detailed instructions so that you could accomplish your task with a simple R3 or Radias,

AND IN THE END YOU COME HERE AND CALL ME AN "ASSHOLE"?!?

Trust me, one of my best coding teachers was a total arse. Being a good teacher has nothing to do with arse-i-ness. But yes, you did take your spare time to help me with my synth endeavors, which is a very nice thing to do. However, in this thread you completely rip apart anyone who uses a lower end synth in the most arrogant way possible, and completely derailed it from the original topic: the Venom, which is why I clicked on this thread; to hear opinions on the Venom, not just on low-end synths and their users in general.

Listen man,

why don't you go and buy all the synths you want until you find a preset which matches the cover you need,

and spare my time?

I'm not in a band, nevermind a cover band. I only cover songs when I'm bored. I wasn't asking about the skrillex bass to do a cover. I wanted to learn how he did his basses, so I could use that technique in my own production, to create my own music.

Furthermore, check my post count. I'm not a preset machine. I try to synthesize my sounds by myself first, and ask later. In the skrillex thread specifically you could see I had already attempted a sound- starting with saws, and getting into some modulation such as with filter reso to generate the growl. If I was a preset user, the most I would've done is twiddled knobs and hoped something happened.

You just went for the cheapest synth you could find, no matter its sound, and 12 hours later you were on a forum looking for "what other equipment should I use" for a SINGLE sound that your synth CAN indeed play.

....... I've owned my R3 since 2009. Not exactly '12 hours.' Furthermore, the R3 was the MOST EXPENSIVE synth I could buy. I spent all of my cash on a used one. I was originally in the market for a used microkorg, but xmlguy convinced me to up to the R3 for the additional features. I was over budget with the R3, nevermind a Radias-R (which i couldn't have purchased anyways because I had no MIDI controller!) I had already spent an extra $200 over the MK, an extra $400-$500 (which was the difference between a used R3 and used Radias at the time) would not have been within my budget.

Think about it. Knowledge, and spending money wisely, is better than throwing money at problems.

OFC. when I bought my R3, I didn't even know what dubstep was. I didn't buy my R3 for one dubstep sound. I spent a lot of time researching my options within korg and outside, so for you to call R3 and other low-end synth users penny-pinching DJs who don't know anything about choosing a keyboard is insanely offensive.

As for the whole bass-player comments, I only played for about 6 months, so I am definitely not a bass-player. I was a guitarist for 3 years. The only reason my sig is a bass, is because it was the only stringed instrument I had lying around for the picture. I had to sell my LP to purchase my R3.

Don't assume because I ask for help on a patch, that that is all I have done. I've helped people with their patches in the past. I've written a guide which is stickied to help new users understand why their MIDI cable isn't playing the R3's sound. I try to help people with their technical issues to the best of my ability. I am fairly active, hence why I am at the same user level as you.

But as you said, this isn't just about me. Please, before you trash all R3 users as DJ preset-using bass-playing cheapos, look into who we are and what we do. I am not the world's best synth patcher, but I do know quite a bit more than the preset user. Axxim, xmlguy, and many others have made some great patches despite the R3's limitations. Our synth may feel no sturdier than that $50 radioshack board we played on as kids, but it can certainly rip out some music.

[ozy]

"attack", "attack", "attack"...

where? when?

Easy, man...

Somebody asked about the gaia and the Venom,

and I said the same money can buy better synths.

(Refute this with facts, or spare oxygen).

I made a list.

I helped him buy.

You love the R3? Good.

Bye.