Kronos as my DAW?

CfNorENa · Post by **CfNorENa** » Tue Jun 14, 2011 8:26 pm

Randelph wrote:Would love to hear more about its qualities as a mixer (quality of preamps, converters) and its ability to sync with MTC? Would the D3200 be the master? Is sync instantaneous? Good channel strip eq?

As far as I know, the only real complaint amongst average home studio owners was the small screen. But for $200, that problem is now solved.

It does MTC (has to be master).

Much like a workstation, the D3200 is a jack-of-all-trades, so the quality of the individual components (preamps, converters, EQ, effects) probably cannot compete with dedicated devices. Easy enough, though, to add external effects (it has 2 aux sends) and different types of signal processing on the way in. Not sure about the quality of the EQ. For what it's worth, I've been using its little brother, the D888, for over two years, and to my ears the sound quality is pristine. Surely the D3200 would be superior (D888 only records at 16 bit, for example).

Pretty comprehensive review at SoS:

http://www.soundonsound.com/sos/jan06/a ... gd3200.htm

Also, lots of discussion of this (and related digital multi-track recorders) at StudioTrax: http://www.studiotrax.net/forums/

These things routinely appear on the used market for under $700...

cello · Post by **cello** » Tue Jun 14, 2011 8:53 pm

@ Randelph

You might also be interested in this specification link http://www.korg.co.uk/products/digital_ ... cation.asp

I haven't used all its capabilities to be honest but have not ever been disappointed with what I need it do to/how I use it to get it to do what I need it to do!

Great value. Great machine. Great results.

IMHO of course...

ChristianRock · Post by **ChristianRock** » Tue Jun 14, 2011 9:19 pm

To all you guys talking about the D3200: I'm happy for you, and Imma let you finish, but the Kronos is the best digital recorder ever

- just kidding on the ever part (or am I?), but I do believe it's better than the D3200 and I'll explain why:

- First of all, why in the world would I want the drums on the D3200 after having heard the new Kronos drums? Night and day difference.
- 16MIDI tracks + 16Audio on Kronos vs. audio tracks only on the D3200
- I've heard the preamps in the D3200 are not that great (but I'm not planning on using preamps anyway, I have external preamps + converter that I'm going to use, so S/PDIF input is all I need)
- recording 2 tracks at a time is fine for me because my drums will come from Kronos. I would need more than 6 outputs from Kronos to D3200 to record the drum parts properly to be able to do a good mix later
- Kronos effects vs D3200 effects. Need I say more?

If the D3200 was an option, I'd rather just remain with the Tascam reel-to-reel, they both are valued at about the same anyway, give or take.

So, to sum it up, no D3200 for me.

ChristianRock · Post by **ChristianRock** » Tue Jun 14, 2011 9:23 pm

By the way, Dan just answered in the other thread that the Kronos has a 32-bit floating point. To those of you that went from 32-bit to 64-bit floating points in your DAWs, did that make a huge difference?

CfNorENa · Post by **CfNorENa** » Tue Jun 14, 2011 9:29 pm

@CR: yes, of course, an all your points. But I think most of us were talking about using the D3200 WITH the Kronos, not INSTEAD of the Kronos.

Apologies, by the way, if we (I) hijacked the thread!

cello · Post by **cello** » Tue Jun 14, 2011 9:33 pm

ChristianRock wrote:To all you guys talking about the D3200: I'm happy for you, and Imma let you finish, but the Kronos is the best digital recorder ever - just kidding on the ever part (or am I?), but I do believe it's better than the D3200 and I'll explain why:

- First of all, why in the world would I want the drums on the D3200 after having heard the new Kronos drums? Night and day difference.
- 16MIDI tracks + 16Audio on Kronos vs. audio tracks only on the D3200
- I've heard the preamps in the D3200 are not that great (but I'm not planning on using preamps anyway, I have external preamps + converter that I'm going to use, so S/PDIF input is all I need)
- recording 2 tracks at a time is fine for me because my drums will come from Kronos. I would need more than 6 outputs from Kronos to D3200 to record the drum parts properly to be able to do a good mix later
- Kronos effects vs D3200 effects. Need I say more?

If the D3200 was an option, I'd rather just remain with the Tascam reel-to-reel, they both are valued at about the same anyway, give or take.

So, to sum it up, no D3200 for me.

Fair enough! We all work differently - your approach would not work for me as my musical approach is in no way midi-important - other than to keep machines in sync. As I mentioned, I don't use the D3200 drums so can't comment on those.

Re your point about the effects - why use the D3200 effects when I'm using the OASYS effects to feed in to each track? Don't understand your derision - unles you're saying the OASYS effects aren't any good? I use the D3200 effects only to limit or Eq in relation to the other recorded tracks. So any track mastered on the D3200 = the effects of any instrument that is recorded through it...

PS - didn't mean to hijack thread either - was just trying to offer another option in your decision-making process!

ChristianRock · Post by **ChristianRock** » Tue Jun 14, 2011 9:36 pm

My comparison was Kronos as main sound source + DAW, vs. Kronos as main sound source using D3200 as DAW.

I wasn't talking about D3200 vs. Kronos.

On effects, for example, everything I record in the 16 audio tracks, will be able to use the Kronos effects, insert effects and mastering effects - on D3200 I wouldn't be able to have effects that are that nice. And so on...

I record vocals, guitars, flute, etc - so effects on audio tracks are very important to me. Maybe if you record instrumentals totally made with keyboards/synths, you won't have the need that I have.

Also, currently I don't do any MIDI editing. I have a reel-to-reel which I use without any sequencer at all, except for the drum machine, which technically is a sequencer... but all keys parts are played. That's why I'm not afraid of the MIDI capabilities of the Kronos not being up to date to modern DAWs. I'm of the school of, if it wasn't good, do it again

cello · Post by **cello** » Tue Jun 14, 2011 9:41 pm

ChristianRock wrote:On effects, for example, everything I record in the 16 audio tracks, will be able to use the Kronos effects, insert effects and mastering effects - on D3200 I wouldn't be able to have effects that are that nice. And so on...

Have to quickly make this point. I record my wife playing cello acoustically all the time (she's a full time professional orchestral, quartet, soliost and plays cello on Coldplay and Divine Comedy tracks - so she's my most demanding critic!) . Her stereo tracks go through the OASYS, thus picking up its effects. These "effected" acoustic tracks are then fed through to the D3200, and then mixed in relation to the other Radias, etc tracks.

It is not correct to say that the D3200 cannot pick up the Kronos effects - it can; if you route the sequencer output to the D3200.

ChristianRock · Post by **ChristianRock** » Tue Jun 14, 2011 9:44 pm

cello wrote:
ChristianRock wrote:On effects, for example, everything I record in the 16 audio tracks, will be able to use the Kronos effects, insert effects and mastering effects - on D3200 I wouldn't be able to have effects that are that nice. And so on...
Have to quickly make this point. I record my wife playing cello acoustically all the time. Her stereo tracks go through the OASYS, thus picking its effects. These effected acoustic tracks are then fed through to the D3200, and then mixed in relation to the other Radias, etc tracks.

It is not correct to say that the D3200 cannot pick up the Kronos effects - it can; if you route the sequencer output to the D3200.

But I'd have to record all keyboard parts, plus the drum parts, plus my vocals, plus bass, plus guitar, plus flute (sometimes), do all my automation and effects on these 16 or so audio tracks, and route all those (plus the MIDI tracks) through the 6 outputs that the Kronos has into something like a D3200? I might as well just do my final mix right on the Kronos. I fail to see how something like the D3200 can help me in this case.

And exporting them 6 by 6 would be even more inconvenient...

cello · Post by **cello** » Tue Jun 14, 2011 9:48 pm

ChristianRock wrote:
cello wrote:
ChristianRock wrote:On effects, for example, everything I record in the 16 audio tracks, will be able to use the Kronos effects, insert effects and mastering effects - on D3200 I wouldn't be able to have effects that are that nice. And so on...
Have to quickly make this point. I record my wife playing cello acoustically all the time. Her stereo tracks go through the OASYS, thus picking its effects. These effected acoustic tracks are then fed through to the D3200, and then mixed in relation to the other Radias, etc tracks.

It is not correct to say that the D3200 cannot pick up the Kronos effects - it can; if you route the sequencer output to the D3200.
But I'd have to record all keyboard parts, plus the drum parts, plus my vocals, plus bass, plus guitar, plus flute (sometimes), do all my automation and effects on these 16 or so audio tracks, and route all those (plus the MIDI tracks) through the 6 outputs that the Kronos has into something like a D3200? I might as well just do my final mix right on the Kronos. I fail to see how something like the D3200 can help me in this case.

And exporting them 6 by 6 would be even more inconvenient...

Well, it worked for Vangelis, Jarre and Tomita... it's called multi-tracking!

Am not trying to change your opinion - far from it! We all have to work differently - and no-one respects that more than me! But I have no problem capturing OASYS effects on tracks onto the D3200. Just FYI.

My creative process is a stanger to everyone - but me. Just as yours is!

CfNorENa · Post by **CfNorENa** » Tue Jun 14, 2011 9:49 pm

ChristianRock wrote:I fail to see how something like the D3200 can help me in this case.

Fair enough. I suppose the only possible limitation would be 16 audio tracks (or 32, if you add the 16 MIDI tracks). The D3200 would double your track count. Not sure how important that would be for your music...

ChristianRock · Post by **ChristianRock** » Tue Jun 14, 2011 9:53 pm

cello wrote:Well, it worked for Vangelis, Jarre and Tomita... it's called multi-tracking!

Are you trolling me? Multi-tracking is what I'm going to do with the Kronos, in case you haven't noticed. It has 16 audio tracks, as I said in my original post, plus 16 MIDI tracks. As I also said in my original post, I feel that that's enough for me. I currently work with 16 audio tracks, total, and have produced two entire CDs with this many tracks.

cello · Post by **cello** » Tue Jun 14, 2011 9:56 pm

Easy.

I was responding to your assertion that it was hard work putting different tracks together through the K onto a seperate device.

I have no interest in trolling, and as you are making it abundantly clear you are not interested in other people's opinions or methods, I will leave you to your world.

Bon chance!

ChristianRock · Post by **ChristianRock** » Tue Jun 14, 2011 9:57 pm

CfNorENa wrote:
ChristianRock wrote:I fail to see how something like the D3200 can help me in this case.
Fair enough. I suppose the only possible limitation would be 16 audio tracks (or 32, if you add the 16 MIDI tracks). The D3200 would double your track count. Not sure how important that would be for your music...

I think I'll be fine with the 16 MIDI + 16 Audio

ChristianRock · Post by **ChristianRock** » Tue Jun 14, 2011 9:59 pm

cello wrote:Easy.

I was responding to your assertion that it was hard work putting different tracks together through the K onto a seperate device.

I have no interest in trolling, and as you are making it clear you are not interested in other people's opinions or methods, I will leave you to your world.

Bon chance!

I am interested, but your comment "it's called multi-tracking" was unfortunate because I currently do multi-tracking on my Tascam tape unit (just like Vangelis and Jarre did, by the way), and I will obviously do multi-tracking on the Kronos.

You failed to see that if I use the Kronos and D3200 both, I would be doubling that effort unnecessarily. That was my whole point, but you chose to make fun of me instead. That's why I called it trolling. If this was just an oversight on your part, I apologize for the reply.