Korg Kronos vs. Yamaha Motif XF

Melodialworks Music · Post by **Melodialworks Music** » Sun Jun 19, 2011 5:52 pm

I suspect that if you post the exact same question on motifator.com you're get a majority of "Motif XS is best" type responses. (Maybe you already have . . . )

Having said that, the OS on the Motif is sort of like working with Windows / DOS and the OS on the Kronos is like working with OS-X.

BTW, I sold my Motif XS to finance the Kronos . . . I am not alone.

Kevin Nolan · Post by **Kevin Nolan** » Sun Jun 19, 2011 6:10 pm

kbrkr wrote:The Motif is probably the BEST rompler on the market today. For LIVE gigging and using Acoustic Samples it is probably the BEST board on the market today.
You can play a modeling synth and sample it and throw those samples on to the Flash cards and cart it off to a gig and your all set. There are LOTS of very fine 3rd party libraries out there for the MOTIF that save you hours and hours of programming. If you had to bring only ONE board to a live gig, which one would you bring?

The Kronos is not battle tested on live gigs; YET! I can see a lot of opportunities for creativity with the Kronos. I also see a lot of value in the SETLIST function, but you can setup any synth with setlists. I do it on the XF all the time using performances.

I would probably have both, If I could.

I'm afraid this reads like a particularly Motif prejudiced post. In particular - what 'modelling synth' would you sample? Surely the point of modelling is that the model responds to the performance itself - you can't 'sample' that. It reads like you're trying to understate the importance of the significant modelling on the Kronos - STR-1 plucked string model, Electric Piano Virtual Models, CX-3 Organ model and three different virtual analogue synthesizer models.

To the original poster - there is no debate in any of this. The Kronos (or OASYS) are frankly, in a different league and are fundamentally different instruments to all of the other 'romplers'. Think of them as a hardware suite of top notch keyboards and synthesizers; and with DAW capability, the Kronos will serve your studio needs well beyond the life span of even OS-dependent instruments such as NI Konplete and Arturia synths which can only exist as long as those companies support them through future OS updates (always a limited time span).

The Kronos and OASYS is a unique take on all that is exquisite and in the very upper echelons of keyboards and synthesis. The Mofit is NOT that. Do not waste you t time on such a comparison and do yourself a massive favour in buying the Kronos and getting to know it well. I’m speaking from five and a half years of OASYS experience – this is the most serious proposition of keyboard and synthesis technology there is. If you’re after the very, VERY best, then Kronos is your man. Accepted I sound prejudiced - but there are 70+ keyboards in my two studio rooms, and OASYS has been appraised in very serious company - I say none of this likely. Get Kronos!

Kevin.

Mystic38 · Post by **Mystic38** » Sun Jun 19, 2011 7:06 pm

Well, you have asked a specific either/or question..

IMO its the Kronos and i do not think it is even close..

1. motif small screen and agonisingly laborious UI (though a benefit if a previous motif owner)
2. motif nice acoustic sounds..weak synth sounds and synth engine
3. motif arps clearly outclassed by karma
5. motif is simply a waveform synthesis workstation, vs kronos which is that plus real VA engines etc.

UI and workflow is a major time sink in any workstation and so if you currently have, and have used in depth, a motif or motif ES as a workstation i would recommend the XF otherwise it simply does not bring enough to the table.. the goalposts have shifted.

Rocness · Post by **Rocness** » Sun Jun 19, 2011 7:19 pm

Lougheed wrote:I suspect that if you post the exact same question on motifator.com you're get a majority of "Motif XS is best" type responses. (Maybe you already have . . . )

I actually found the motifactor a little more honest and fair than most forums . Case and point : I was reading a tread on motifactor where a new Kronos owner was very upset about his brand new Kronos basically falling apart with pics of data wheel off . He was basically telling people that
the kronos was a piece of $hit from his own experience. I thought the motif users would jump all on this and star bashing the Kronos but they didn't .
They actually gave supporting words that Korg would more than likely fix the problem and that he should give the Kronos a chance . I was surprised how cool they where about it , not sure if the tables where turned the yamaha would get the same support .

valmundo · Post by **valmundo** » Sun Jun 19, 2011 7:34 pm

Thanks for the reply for those who took the time to do so. I have been watching some recently posted Youtube videos on the Kronos sound engine and it sounds awesome!

Any other feedback is appreciated.

apex · Post by **apex** » Sun Jun 19, 2011 11:16 pm

mjames4208 wrote:i have the motif xs8 and a kronos 61. i'd do anything for a kronos 88, now. i should have waited and just sold my motif xs8. the sounds on the kronos are so refreshing for me after having the fantom & motif for all of these years. i honestly have new found creativity.
the learning curve is killing me on the kronos, but it's worth it.

just midi your xs8 into the Kronos 61 and it's technically the same as having a kronos 88...

aron · Post by **aron** » Mon Jun 20, 2011 12:50 am

>Having said that, the OS on the Motif is sort of like working with Windows / DOS and the OS on the Kronos is like working with OS-X.

No way. Kurzweil is DOS, maybe Motif is like windows and yes Kronos is closer to Ubuntu

Chriskk · Post by **Chriskk** » Mon Jun 20, 2011 12:53 am

i have the motif xs8 and a kronos 61. i'd do anything for a kronos 88, now. i should have waited and just sold my motif xs8. the sounds on the kronos are so refreshing for me after having the fantom & motif for all of these years. i honestly have new found creativity.

Have you ever programmed the Fantom and the Motif? Anyway, why get rid of the XS8 and the Kronos 61 to get a Kronos 88 when you can control the 61 from the XS?

mjames4208 · Post by **mjames4208** » Mon Jun 20, 2011 2:00 am

i should have said....... i should have waited to get he 88.

WorknMan · Post by **WorknMan** » Mon Jun 20, 2011 3:32 am

I haven't played a Kronos yet, but am looking forward to doing so. I do have a Motif XF, however, so let me break it down for you by sound category, as is generally agreed upon by most everyone (I think):

Kronos: Pianos, Synth, EPs (FM synthesis)
Motif: Guitars, Brass, Woodwind, Strings

I'm not sure about the vintage EPs ... anyone?

Let me throw in a couple of things about the Motif though. First of all, the support you get on Motifator is great, especially the shop, with all the 3rd party libraries (all libraries for XS will load on the XF as well). I have several of these libraries, and for the most part, they're much, much better than the factory presets. Plus, if you play a lot of 70's/80's covers, you can get some VERY SPECIFIC sounds from the 80's/Vintage Keys libraries. On the Kronos, you'd probably have to program most/all of these yourself. Now, I dunno how good you are at synth programming (I'm not at all) or how valuable your time is, but just something to keep in mind.

Also, the one BIG thing that nobody has talked about in this thread is this piece of software:
http://www.jmelas.gr/motif/lib.php

The whole package is a bit pricey, but well worth it, IMO. It takes a huge bite out of the Motif's learning curve and makes it a snap to do stuff that would otherwise be a PITA to do directly on the Motif. It does a lot of cool things, but my favorite is that you can import Motif voice libraries directly into the software via your PC, and you can drag and drop voices around, and there's even dependency tracking between performances and voices, so that when you move a voice around the various banks, any performances that point to it will be automagically updated. It can also copy voices to performances and bring over all the effects too. I only mention this because somebody earlier in this thread was bitching about that

Oh, and there's also editors for the iPad, and the Karma 3.0 for XF (via PC software) is either coming to Motif, or is already out. You have to pay for it though

In the end, they're really different beasts and hard to compare. One could lean toward the Kronos by default because of all the tech it has. On the other hand, the XF has the 2gb flash ram option

Bruce Lychee · Post by **Bruce Lychee** » Mon Jun 20, 2011 3:43 am

I used to own the XS6 and the Fantom G8. I have the Kronos 88 on order. I think the Kronos is clearly a more versatile and powerful workstation than the XS6, however for live players who aren't in need of great synth sounds, the XS6 is still one of the best gigging boards. It sounds great live and in a few areas like acoustic guitars, still sounds better than the Kronos. Yamaha build quality is also superior, whether because of materials used or their ability to leverage their manufacturing expertise and resources.

I understand why many live jazz and blues players still love the Yamahas and wouldn't question anyone who prefers the Yamaha sounds for their live needs. Nevertheless, the Kronos can also make for a great live board and offers much more than the XF as a workstation and creative tool for those seeking a world of choices at their fingertips. I paused and considered the XF before buying the Kronos, but that pause was momentary.

NuSkoolTone · Post by **NuSkoolTone** » Mon Jun 20, 2011 6:14 am

I own an XS and am waiting to audition a Kronos.

I will almost certainly replace my M50 with the Kronos. From a spec point of view, I'd like to make it my main board. Though I've been paying attention while gigging and I really DO use all 76 keys on my XS! So the 73 is a downer for sure. If it's not too heavy, I might get the 88.

Anyhoo, back to a comparison. For acoustic sounds, the Motif series is hard to beat. Yes it's only rompler technology, but it sounds GOOD! As much as the geek in me wants to prefer the Kronos because it has all these engines etc.., the BOTTOM LINE is how it SOUNDS.

The Pianos, EP's I think will be a landslide. This is obvious because it's what EVERYONE (Notably Korg) showcases. It's the Brass and Guitars that I think are going to be REALLY weak! So far everything in these two categories has left me UNIMPRESSED in the examples I've heard.

Now I play guitar, so for music production this is no big deal. However as a gigging keyboard player I DO still care. There are a couple tunes I use Acoustic Steel string guitars on and the Motif sounds FANTASTIC at this. To the point as a GUITAR PLAYER I find it convincing.

So here's the thing: With 12 GB (TWELVE GIG) of samples, I kind of EXPECT the Kronos to be better at every category. Granted, the Pianos are taking up 9.4 (?) of it already but that's still 2.5 gig left. The Motif XS uses 344mb TOTAL. Add in modeling for the guitars on the Kronos, and then hearing them be lackluster compared to the Motif is a bit of a headscratcher! I hope in person it sounds better.

Also, where are the MOTOWN HORNS? Surely MI co's must be hip to how important these sounds are now for gigging players. The ones on the Motif (Loading some extra samples from bonus packs) JUST make the cut and blend in REAL nice on the gigs with a sax player. So I'm eager to play the Kronos and see how it fairs here. What kills me with keyboards and horns is the focus has always been on CLASSICAL horns, and I have YET to meet ANYONE who uses horns for classical stuff! We want something bright and punchy that does NOT sound like synth brass!

Synths I think will be great on Kronos, I hope there's a lot of nice pop presets so I can throw stuff together without too much programming for my covers gig. This is where the Motif series excels. The XS has had nearly EVERY pop radio sound which only required minimal tweaking to get things rolling. When I do my personal stuff, I LOVE programming, but sometimes I just want to get to work!

So sounds wise, this is what's on MY mind while waiting for Kronos to be available to play.

Hugo · Post by **Hugo** » Mon Jun 20, 2011 2:31 pm

Maybe it's already mentioned, but another big plus in my view for the Kronos over the Motif, is the effect implementation. On Kronos they are freely configurable, so you can use all twelve insert effects on one patch, while in the Motif it's hard wired, so there's 2 insert effects max (8 parts have their own set of two effects).

donjuancarlos · Post by **donjuancarlos** » Mon Jun 20, 2011 2:51 pm

How about a comparo???

http://neosoulkeyz.wordpress.com/2011/0 ... -shootout/

I love the intro in a wtf way-- [over the top explosion] "gospelmusicians.com" [over the top explosion]

EDIT: okay, just watched a bit of it, the guy just mostly geeks out about the Kronos.

Kevin Nolan · Post by **Kevin Nolan** » Mon Jun 20, 2011 3:34 pm

NuSkoolTone wrote:I own an XS and am waiting to audition a Kronos.

I will almost certainly replace my M50 with the Kronos. From a spec point of view, I'd like to make it my main board. Though I've been paying attention while gigging and I really DO use all 76 keys on my XS! So the 73 is a downer for sure. If it's not too heavy, I might get the 88.

Anyhoo, back to a comparison. For acoustic sounds, the Motif series is hard to beat. Yes it's only rompler technology, but it sounds GOOD! As much as the geek in me wants to prefer the Kronos because it has all these engines etc.., the BOTTOM LINE is how it SOUNDS.

The Pianos, EP's I think will be a landslide. This is obvious because it's what EVERYONE (Notably Korg) showcases. It's the Brass and Guitars that I think are going to be REALLY weak! So far everything in these two categories has left me UNIMPRESSED in the examples I've heard.

Now I play guitar, so for music production this is no big deal. However as a gigging keyboard player I DO still care. There are a couple tunes I use Acoustic Steel string guitars on and the Motif sounds FANTASTIC at this. To the point as a GUITAR PLAYER I find it convincing.

So here's the thing: With 12 GB (TWELVE GIG) of samples, I kind of EXPECT the Kronos to be better at every category. Granted, the Pianos are taking up 9.4 (?) of it already but that's still 2.5 gig left. The Motif XS uses 344mb TOTAL. Add in modeling for the guitars on the Kronos, and then hearing them be lackluster compared to the Motif is a bit of a headscratcher! I hope in person it sounds better.

Also, where are the MOTOWN HORNS? Surely MI co's must be hip to how important these sounds are now for gigging players. The ones on the Motif (Loading some extra samples from bonus packs) JUST make the cut and blend in REAL nice on the gigs with a sax player. So I'm eager to play the Kronos and see how it fairs here. What kills me with keyboards and horns is the focus has always been on CLASSICAL horns, and I have YET to meet ANYONE who uses horns for classical stuff! We want something bright and punchy that does NOT sound like synth brass!

Synths I think will be great on Kronos, I hope there's a lot of nice pop presets so I can throw stuff together without too much programming for my covers gig. This is where the Motif series excels. The XS has had nearly EVERY pop radio sound which only required minimal tweaking to get things rolling. When I do my personal stuff, I LOVE programming, but sometimes I just want to get to work!

So sounds wise, this is what's on MY mind while waiting for Kronos to be available to play.

The Kronos/OASYS HD-1 guitars are as good as they get on a workstation - any comparison of any HD-1 sounds with Motif and other romplers on this basis is personal choice and not a real difference in quality (though if you want to split hairs then the uncompressed nature of Kronos/OASYS samples are superior w.r.t to fidelity and dynamics).

Then there's STR-1 which delivers exceptional string models across a range of instruments including guitars; which when properly programmed for basic sound and performance parameters, provide for a capability samples just can’t compete with.

On top of that - check out Karma 'Manual Advance' Generated Effects. This is a breadth taking technique that allows for awesome strumming and plucking styles for Guitar (and Harp) - you just have to try it out.

So I think, on balance, it is unreasonable to sum up a shortcoming in Kronos guitars without exploring the very serious programming, sound engine and performance capabilities of Kronos for Guitars - I'm sure you'll find it goes well and beyond the other romplers, and any shortcoming will only be in Keyboards looking to do Guitars, and lack of time spent exploring the huge options available. You are entitled not to like them; but Kronos is far from unimpressive in the 'guitars' department.

With respect to Horns - the same broadly applies though I agree without a virtual brass and wind model, it is limited by its samples. But again the ESx3 wind and brass sample library is full of very strong instruments targeted for rock/jazz/big-band performance. I saw Herbie Hancock live in Dublin last October and he played Brass on OASYS admirably - if it's good enough for him I'll go along with that.

Kevin.