SGX-1 and EP-1 release velocity & release noise levels

[JPROBERTLA]

Last week I submitted a post inquiring about velocity release MIDI information transmitting to and from the Kronos. This is important to some, because the release noise levels in the SGX-1 and EP-1 programs are affected by this parameter. I said I would post what I found out, so here it is; and from a most reliable source: The Kronos keyboards transmit velocity release MIDI information. The Kronos does not recieve velocity release MIDI information. When another keyboard is used to play SGX-1 and EP-1 programs, this parameter if fixed at MIDI value 64. Korg anticipating that other keyboards would be used to control the Kronos, compensated by programing this parameter in these PCGs to sound "good" at that value. You can also edit this parameter in any program if you want to increase of decrease the release noise level. Does anyone think this will be a problem?

[franzlp]

As to Korg, is there any programmatic reason to fix this value? This would seem a very desirable exploit since you can certainly conceive having external controllers use the Kronos and adjust this value dynamically by a real time performance value.

[JPROBERTLA]

Since the Kronos doesn't recieve MIDI release velocity information, they fixed the value so that the release noise would sound when controlled by another keyboard. I am not sure if there are any keyboard controllers that transmit MIDI release veocity information - does anyone know of one?

[ldascanio]

Since the Kronos doesn't recieve MIDI release velocity information, they fixed the value so that the release noise would sound when controlled by another keyboard. I am not sure if there are any keyboard controllers that transmit MIDI release veocity information - does anyone know of one?

In fact you are not limited to other keyboard transmiting release velocity info.
If I understood correctly, in the MIDI implementation chart of the KRONOS it clearly specify that release velocity is only transmitted between 1-64 values (instead of 1-128 common MIDI range) and more important.... the KORNOS sequencer does not save release velocity data, so when you try to reproduce with the sequencer a live performance with SGX-1 and EP-1 engines the noises associated to release velocity won't be reproduced in the same way.
According to the MIDI implementation (parameter guide at the end), the sequencer will transmit always a value=64 for this parameter. I think this is the main reason why the programs based on these engines should sound good and balanced when release velocity is 64 even if KRONOS is your only keyboard.

Rgds.

[X-Trade]

Now that sounds badly hacked in.
But then they went to all the trouble to work around it to get it to work well. Why not just receive it and store it in the sequencer properly in the first place?


My Novation ReMote37 SL transmits release velocity. As does the rest of the range I expect (I always wanted the 61).

Unfortunately release-velocity is one of those obvious things that is so easy to implement and has been in the MIDI standard for years but no-one bothers with it. It can make for some quite expressive sounds. For example I make pads in Reaktor where the Attack is controlled by the On Velocity and the Release is controlled by the Off Velocity. Quite cool.

Sorry but it just seems so

[ldascanio]

Now that sounds badly hacked in.
But then they went to all the trouble to work around it to get it to work well. Why not just receive it and store it in the sequencer properly in the first place?

Sorry but it just seems so

I agree that it would be really nice to have release velocity fully implemented in Kronos (including sequencer and all other engines, availability as AMS, etc) but even if not, it's an addition not present in previous KORG workstations (OASYS included) that have some utility in specific situations as live performance of piano sounds, so I'm still happy to have it implemented. I think it's an advance even if not implemented in the best imaginable way.

Rgds.

[danatkorg]

Last week I submitted a post inquiring about velocity release MIDI information transmitting to and from the Kronos. This is important to some, because the release noise levels in the SGX-1 and EP-1 programs are affected by this parameter. I said I would post what I found out, so here it is; and from a most reliable source: The Kronos keyboards transmit velocity release MIDI information. The Kronos does not recieve velocity release MIDI information. When another keyboard is used to play SGX-1 and EP-1 programs, this parameter if fixed at MIDI value 64. Korg anticipating that other keyboards would be used to control the Kronos, compensated by programing this parameter in these PCGs to sound "good" at that value. You can also edit this parameter in any program if you want to increase of decrease the release noise level. Does anyone think this will be a problem?

I think this was a misunderstanding. The KRONOS both receives and transmits release velocity. This is shown in the MIDI Implementation Chart in the Operation Guide.

However, most other keyboards don't support release velocity. These keyboards will send every note-off with a fixed release velocity of 64. So, we made sure that the sounds would still sound good with release velocity fixed at 64.

- Dan

[danatkorg]

If I understood correctly, in the MIDI implementation chart of the KRONOS it clearly specify that release velocity is only transmitted between 1-64 values (instead of 1-128 common MIDI range)

Yup. We looked into this quite a bit before deciding on the implementation. We decided that restricting the range to 1-64 (for reception in particular) was necessary for compatibility with the vast majority of keyboards which do not support release velocity. Otherwise, they'd all sound as if you were releasing the key pretty slowly.

[ldascanio]

If I understood correctly, in the MIDI implementation chart of the KRONOS it clearly specify that release velocity is only transmitted between 1-64 values (instead of 1-128 common MIDI range)

Yup. We looked into this quite a bit before deciding on the implementation. We decided that restricting the range to 1-64 (for reception in particular) was necessary for compatibility with the vast majority of keyboards which do not support release velocity. Otherwise, they'd all sound as if you were releasing the key pretty slowly.

Thanks Dan!

Crystal clear as usual

Rgds.