Kronos (hardware) vs Komplete8 (software)

Discussion relating to the Korg Kronos Workstation.

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SanderXpander
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Post by SanderXpander »

With my hardware I'm a 95% live user. I gig often and so my opinions are colored accordingly.
For me the four main advantages for hardware over software are;

1. Transportability - I know the above poster is right in saying that you can take a small keyboard and laptop to the park, but when I go to a gig, I prefer just bringing something like the Kronos, where all I have to do is switch it on. Not hook up the audio and midi interfaces, boot up mainstage/whatever, load up all those patches etc. I've done that and it does have its uses, but it's just ten times simpler using a hardware synth or workstation.

2. Coherence of sound - mr. Rudess also mentioned this briefly in the long launch video and I thought it was a very astute point. With an instrument like Kronos, all the sounds are somehow in balance much more than with a random collection of VSTis. I don't mean that they all sound the same or have a particular Korg sheen - even when I load samples in my TrEX it is somehow still "part of the instrument". It's hard to explain I suppose. I did quite a few gigs where I was required to play Mainstage with a lot of different VSTis and I had a constant struggle trying to get them to "play nice" in the mix and respond somewhat uniformly to my PC-600 controller.
So while it is true that softsynths tend to offer a wider scope of sounds and better sounds in most categories, that does not always help the live user.

3. Reliability - although I have to admit that Mainstage nor Ableton have never catastrophically failed me, something in me is still nervous when I use them over a piece of dedicated hardware. Both Mainstage and Ableton HAVE crashed while I was preparing stuff at home, for instance. The worst that has happened to my TrEX was that the sustain pedal hung. Switching sounds back and forth fixed it. I used Brainspawn Forte a year or two ago and got a blue screen of death during a gig. Not fun.

4. Control and programmability - the larger screens on computers are nice, it's true. But I HATE fiddling with the mouse to change some filter cut off or LFO rate. I need knobs and sliders and preferably a touch screen. I know a dedicated controller would largely fix this (I didn't do much with Ableton till I got my APC40) but at what point does software then become hardware again? Think of the MS20 controller for instance.
Universal controllers don't cut it for me personally, simply because the random assignment of faders and knobs doesn't correspond visually (and thus intuitively) with what's on the screen.

Well, this turned out longer than I thought it would. I guess my mind is made up even more that I already knew about wanting a Kronos! :)
RonF
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Re: Kronos (hardware) vs Komplete8 (software)

Post by RonF »

biggrime wrote: 5. HIDE - If you spent more money then you should it is easier to hide your VSTs then a kronos
HAAAAHAAAAHAAA

:3drofl: :3drofl: :3drofl:
http://soundcloud.com/ronf-3/sets/ronf-music
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCr1zAK ... LQZrUYGPQA
Favorite Gear: Kronos 61, M3, Z1, Radias, KPro, KP3, Moog Voyager, Foogers, Virus TI, Jupiter 80, Integra7, GAIA, SPD-30, Kiwi 106, RE-201, MC808, RC505, MV8800, DSI P6 and OB6 and P12, Ensoniq SQ80, EMU MP-7, Eventide H7600, Eclipse, SPACE, Pitchfactor, Timefactor, Looperlative LP-1, Axe FX Ultra, Nord Modular, DSI Tetra, Tempest, PEK, JDXA, Eurorack Modular, Octatrack, MDUW, Monomachine, A4, RYTM, Waldorf Q Phoenix, MWXTk, Blofeld, TR8.
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synthguy
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Post by synthguy »

I know I have a distinct bias in the direction of hardware synthesizer instruments, but it's for a certain reason. The sound.

I really don't feel much coming from most of the software instruments out there, other than the emulations of vintage analog synths, or Omnisphere, which is based largely on the crazy, unique, who-would-have-thought-of-that?? samples. I like those. But the rest just sound like generic synths to me, as if some start-up company made some affordable VAs, but nothing about them really stands out or catches your ear. Programmable? Stackable and scalable? I have that capacity already.

On the other hand, all the synths I've collected, and some I intend to reclaim at some point, have character. Not quite the same way as someone who owns a real CS-80, ARP 2600 or Moog Modular III, but still. I have my KORG sounds. I have my Kurzweil sounds. I have my Roland sounds. I have my Yamaha sounds. And some others as well, including a few analogs. This variety, while perhaps subtle to some, to me is like having access to an orchestra of synthesizer textures, or colors. The flute and string patches I make with these various synths blend well because they don't sound quite the same. They have their own behavior. If you only have one rompler or sampler with one library available, you'll understand what I'm talking about. Even if I had a top of the line gigasampler library, I'd still throw in these rompler and sampler sounds, because they add character that would otherwise be missing.

And I have so many instruments, the only software I really need or want is a good DAW, as well as these vintage emulations, because buying a real Jupiter-8 or CS-80 can cost several thousand dollars. And forget a real Moog Modular.

It suits my methods and musical philosophy, so this is where I'll be for a good while yet. And hopefully with a Kronos by the holidays. :wink:
PRAY FOR THIS PLANET!!
RonF
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Post by RonF »

synthguy wrote:I know I have a distinct bias in the direction of hardware synthesizer instruments, but it's for a certain reason. The sound.

I really don't feel much coming from most of the software instruments out there, other than the emulations of vintage analog synths, or Omnisphere, which is based largely on the crazy, unique, who-would-have-thought-of-that?? samples. I like those.
Just to illustrate your point...the driving force behind Omnisphere is Eric Persing, who spent the first part of his career as a sound designer for Roland. In this way, I often feel that Omnisphere has a "hardware sound", though it goes beyond hardware due to the sheer size of its "sound ROM" (something like 50 gig). But there is a certain quality to Omnisphere that feels and sounds a bit Roland at times, and a lot "hardware".

Honestly, Onminsphere is one of only 3 softsynths I am really using these days (though I own just a ton of them). The other is Kontact 4, simply due to its diversity and the number of excellent libraries available for it (Cinematic Guitars!!! Symphobia!!! LASS, Hollywood Strings!). I am also very impressed with NI Razor right now. Its very fresh!

Other than that....I'll stick with my hardware all day long.
http://soundcloud.com/ronf-3/sets/ronf-music
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCr1zAK ... LQZrUYGPQA
Favorite Gear: Kronos 61, M3, Z1, Radias, KPro, KP3, Moog Voyager, Foogers, Virus TI, Jupiter 80, Integra7, GAIA, SPD-30, Kiwi 106, RE-201, MC808, RC505, MV8800, DSI P6 and OB6 and P12, Ensoniq SQ80, EMU MP-7, Eventide H7600, Eclipse, SPACE, Pitchfactor, Timefactor, Looperlative LP-1, Axe FX Ultra, Nord Modular, DSI Tetra, Tempest, PEK, JDXA, Eurorack Modular, Octatrack, MDUW, Monomachine, A4, RYTM, Waldorf Q Phoenix, MWXTk, Blofeld, TR8.
NuSkoolTone
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Post by NuSkoolTone »

I have yet to play ANY soft synth (On a computer) that moves me. It either just doesn't feel right (Specifically, no punch) or I just don't connect with the sound.

2nd I'm a computer professional, but I don't want to deal with a consumer OS that the application is slapped on top of. An embedded solution where the hardware is dedicated (Like the Kronos) is the ONLY acceptable compromise in my book. Also, moving around an interface with a mouse is SLOW compared to real buttons and a touch screen. Plus the user having to MANAGE the OS! Open labs could have been a success if they didn't just slap everything on top of windows. The off the shelf parts which added to the slapped together presentation didn't help either. Kronos isn't perfect, but it's the best implementation I've seen. It's a different approach and that is why it will be a success.
Korg: KRONOS 73, M50-61, 01W/r
Yamaha: Motif XS7, FS1R
Kawai K5000S, Roland JD-990 w/Vintage Synth
SanderXpander
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Post by SanderXpander »

I agree with you to an extent, but since you mentioned softsynths lacking "punch", have you considered the quality of you audio interface? My E-MU 1820M, while not "top of the line", gives notably more clarity and punch to my sounds than my M-Audio Fasttrack Pro.
EvilDragon
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Post by EvilDragon »

Punch?


Any u-he softsynth (specifically ACE and Tyrell) are made to be punchy as hell.
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BasariStudios
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Post by BasariStudios »

I dont even know who said things about software but are people really serious
to compare Kronos sounds to any of the EWQL Library? I have Both, i was playing
the other day with LASS Strings...when i turned to Kronos i wanted to throw the
THING out the window...funny.
http://www.basaristudios.com
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Post by EvilDragon »

LASS sounds amazing...
master logic
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Post by master logic »

As a previous hardware only guy i'm having to bite the bullet on this one. Not specifically with the Kronos in mind but hardware in general. I've been without equipment & money for the past 4 years but kept hoping/dreaming that i'd be able to save & get a few items. Sadly in my present situation that hope is fading fast. But i'm desperate to start producing again & NI's maschine / Komplete seem the only logical option for me. I just wish i could shake the feeling that i'll only feel disappointment from using them.

Edit: I'm coming from a techno background so perhaps these software option are ideal for me (just miss my Oasys big time)
nowtime
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Post by nowtime »

@ MasterLogic:

You're going to need a better sequencer than Maschine. Maschine is a fantastic piece of gear, but it is not a DAW and sequencing/automation is still elementary, in my opinion.
master logic
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Post by master logic »

nowtime wrote:@ MasterLogic:

You're going to need a better sequencer than Maschine. Maschine is a fantastic piece of gear, but it is not a DAW and sequencing/automation is still elementary, in my opinion.
But how would the sequencer capabilities compare with something like Reason or an MPC?
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Post by RonF »

EvilDragon wrote:LASS sounds amazing...
Have it....LOVE it! +1
http://soundcloud.com/ronf-3/sets/ronf-music
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCr1zAK ... LQZrUYGPQA
Favorite Gear: Kronos 61, M3, Z1, Radias, KPro, KP3, Moog Voyager, Foogers, Virus TI, Jupiter 80, Integra7, GAIA, SPD-30, Kiwi 106, RE-201, MC808, RC505, MV8800, DSI P6 and OB6 and P12, Ensoniq SQ80, EMU MP-7, Eventide H7600, Eclipse, SPACE, Pitchfactor, Timefactor, Looperlative LP-1, Axe FX Ultra, Nord Modular, DSI Tetra, Tempest, PEK, JDXA, Eurorack Modular, Octatrack, MDUW, Monomachine, A4, RYTM, Waldorf Q Phoenix, MWXTk, Blofeld, TR8.
RonF
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Post by RonF »

master logic wrote:
nowtime wrote:@ MasterLogic:

You're going to need a better sequencer than Maschine. Maschine is a fantastic piece of gear, but it is not a DAW and sequencing/automation is still elementary, in my opinion.
But how would the sequencer capabilities compare with something like Reason or an MPC?
If you come from a hardware sequencing world...maschine is a god send. Compared to Logic...not so much. I love it, and it will continue to be developed by NI. Best software there is for a "hardware guy". Very inspirational to compose upon.
http://soundcloud.com/ronf-3/sets/ronf-music
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCr1zAK ... LQZrUYGPQA
Favorite Gear: Kronos 61, M3, Z1, Radias, KPro, KP3, Moog Voyager, Foogers, Virus TI, Jupiter 80, Integra7, GAIA, SPD-30, Kiwi 106, RE-201, MC808, RC505, MV8800, DSI P6 and OB6 and P12, Ensoniq SQ80, EMU MP-7, Eventide H7600, Eclipse, SPACE, Pitchfactor, Timefactor, Looperlative LP-1, Axe FX Ultra, Nord Modular, DSI Tetra, Tempest, PEK, JDXA, Eurorack Modular, Octatrack, MDUW, Monomachine, A4, RYTM, Waldorf Q Phoenix, MWXTk, Blofeld, TR8.
master logic
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Post by master logic »

RonF wrote:
master logic wrote:
nowtime wrote:@ MasterLogic:

You're going to need a better sequencer than Maschine. Maschine is a fantastic piece of gear, but it is not a DAW and sequencing/automation is still elementary, in my opinion.
But how would the sequencer capabilities compare with something like Reason or an MPC?
If you come from a hardware sequencing world...maschine is a god send. Compared to Logic...not so much. I love it, and it will continue to be developed by NI. Best software there is for a "hardware guy". Very inspirational to compose upon.
Good to know, cheers!
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