Kronos - KOMPLETE 8 - Maschine

jamsire · Post by **jamsire** » Thu Nov 24, 2011 3:28 pm

Kronos wins.

Hi everyone.

I teach music tech at two colleges. My full-time school is getting ready to order site licenses for KOMPLETE 8 and one order of Maschine (for the heck of it). I too got an updated KOMPLETE 8 (from my KOMPLETE 3) and I got Maschine. I received my Kronos 88 in July, 2011.

Though I haven't installed KOMPLETE 8 yet, I have fooled around with Maschine. Maschine sucks up soooo much of your cpu power that it is barely useable - with the demos and examples it comes with. The demos are all the showoff stuff with their effects, etc. Apparently the new update (v.1.7.1) ruined everything and the drivers do NOT support multi-processing at the moment or something like that. I have optimized my system to its fullest potential of making music easily - and it does it well. Funny thing is - I see Maschine as a killer unit for pattern based music making like back in the days of the Alesis MMt-8/HR-16 combo. Made LOTS of music that way, but everything was built in.

So, I turn over to my Kronos, and...........it just works. Sequencer works, my combi's work, my KARMA is awesome, etc. BTW - I'm a GEETAR man! So, I just love this thing and the very reason I got it was so I can be less reliant on software plugins. I am one of the 00.00019% that feels that once the sound you are looking for is the result of >>code<<, there are many that sound similar and the rest is up to you to be different.

The Kronos - just works (for me - the GEETAR man), and I can say that whether I fire up Pro Tools 9HD, Cubase, 6, Ableton 8.xx - my Kronos always works.

I just wanted to share my recent experience with all of you because I feel it's important to recognize when something just "works" and something else "kinda" works >>ok<<.

jeebustrain · Post by **jeebustrain** » Thu Nov 24, 2011 3:45 pm

I was just having this conversation with a friend of mine last week. He's a regularly gigging keyboard player (3-4 times weekly) and relies on VST instruments to handle a lot of his sounds - his band plays music from the late 70s/early 80s, the sweet spot for a lot of VST sounds - B4, Minimoog, Arp 2600, Prophet 5, etc... He came over to check out the Kronos (and the PC3, which he hadn't seen). He was very impressed, but still liked some of the nuances of the VSTs better (especially the B4).

He's not a "computer guy" though (I am), and has had problems off and on with different things failing on stage over the years, both at a hardware and a software level. We both know that software modeling/emulation is the future of synthesizers (and computers in general - see virtualization). Wheras the PC and a USB controller makes it very easy to build some amazing sounds, the reliability is only as reliable as the separate components you bought (that $400 laptop is only going to last so many gigs before it starts failing).

Hardware synths on the other hand, "just work" (like you said). They are built for a specific purpose and are tested as such, for the rigors of the road and are as powerful as they need to be. Sure, they might not be as flexible, but that flexibility adds a whole host of new potential problems - especially if you aren't prepared for it.

That's the one thing that's great about the K - it's extensible like a PC (to a degree), but for the most part, it "just works."

Bruce Lychee · Post by **Bruce Lychee** » Thu Nov 24, 2011 3:47 pm

I have a new MacBook with 2 SSD drives. I run Logic, Omnisphere, Trilian, Stylus, EastWest, Komplete 8 and Maschine. I have absolutely no issues, no detectable latency and my system is more stable and bug free than my Kronos. It also boots up much faster and has its own backup battery in case power fails.

jamsire · Post by **jamsire** » Thu Nov 24, 2011 3:56 pm

Bruce Lychee wrote:I have a new MacBook with 2 SSD drives. I run Logic, Omnisphere, Trilian, Stylus, EastWest, Komplete 8 and Maschine. I have absolutely no issues, no detectable latency and my system is more stable and bug free than my Kronos.

Interesting.

You see, I have plugins >>for days<<! The only thing I have a problem with is Maschine. KOMPLETE 3 always ran fine as well as my other plugins with my existing custom pc setup. My drives aren't SSD and my computer is not brand new, but I will say that everything (except Maschine currently) works great. >>MY<< Kronos, gives me no issues, nor has it made problems for the true keyboard players that come through and have done their sessions here.

I also like the fact that not everything is one place.

Thanks for sharing.

Bruce Lychee · Post by **Bruce Lychee** » Thu Nov 24, 2011 3:59 pm

Maschine ran slow within Logic for me until their recent update. Generally, I recommend that Maschine not be used as a plug-in. It seems to run slow as a plug in if your system is not powerful.

I tend to do my work within Maschine and bring it over.

Kontrol49 · Post by **Kontrol49** » Thu Nov 24, 2011 4:04 pm

I've never connected with Software in the same way as hardware......even with all of what you can buy for a covenient laptop package to make it a mobile studio

I've used all manner of VSTs/Software platforms,tried laptop solutions cannot put my finger on why,but there is something just missing creating music with just a computer that you don't get with Hardware....

Give me a studio full of hardware and cables over a Computer with fancy graphics anyday,I've just never found a stable computer environment that I could trust to do the same as my hardware that I Simply fire up day after day and just create without all the bullshit of updates and crashes or bugfixes or OS updates that render old components obsolete after a few years,I still utilise synths over 15 years old,how many can say they are still using a computer platform/Computer of that age!!!

I see using Hardware like cooking in the kitchen with all the ingredients in front of you and your the chef being creative with what you add and create,whilst software seems like the ready meal option and you simply heat it up in the microwave!!!whilst the end product may be the same result...its kind of not as sensual and personal...

jamsire · Post by **jamsire** » Thu Nov 24, 2011 4:04 pm

Bruce Lychee wrote:I recommend that Maschine not be used as a plug-in. It seems to run slow as a plug in if your system is not powerful.

I tend to do my work within Maschine and bring it over.

I certainly agree with that!

jamsire · Post by **jamsire** » Thu Nov 24, 2011 4:09 pm

Kontrol49 wrote: Give me a studio full of hardware and cables over a Computer with fancy graphics anyday,I've just never found a stable computer environment that I could trust to do the same as my hardware that I Simply fire up day after day and just create without all the bullshit of updates and crashes or bugfixes or OS updates that render old components obsolete after a few years,I still utilise synths over 15 years old,how many can say they are still using a computer platform/Computer of that age!!!

I see using Hardware like cooking in the kitchen with all the ingredients in front of you and your the chef being creative with what you add and create,whilst software seems like the ready meal option and you simply heat it up in the microwave!!!whilst the end product may be the same result...its kind of not as sensual and personal...

I agree - as a geetar man. In fact, I STILL recording on the Korg D3200 (my live recording setup) because it just does one thing - recording and mix. Sounds great too! Reminds me of my good ol' trusty Tascam 388-8 8 track recorder. Just worked!

SanderXpander · Post by **SanderXpander** » Thu Nov 24, 2011 4:54 pm

I use Maschine inside Sonar as a plugin during production, inside Ableton as a plugin for live use and stand-alone alongside Traktor also live. I don't have any problems with it at all and I can't say my computers are state of the art (though they're not horrible either). I have no problems at all. Perhaps you guys are pushing it more than me, or it could be a Mac/PC thing? (I use PC)
Don't use Komplete though.

I'd rather use a hardware synth for playing keyboard parts live, but Maschine has been awesome for the pattern-based grooves, both live and in production. I dread to think I'd have to use the Kronos sequencer or RPPR based stuff to replace it. It's just nowhere near as quick and easy to use, especially live.

Bruce Lychee · Post by **Bruce Lychee** » Thu Nov 24, 2011 5:03 pm

SanderXpander wrote:I use Maschine inside Sonar as a plugin during production, inside Ableton as a plugin for live use and stand-alone alongside Traktor also live. I don't have any problems with it at all and I can't say my computers are state of the art (though they're not horrible either). I have no problems at all. Perhaps you guys are pushing it more than me, or it could be a Mac/PC thing? (I use PC)
Don't use Komplete though.

I'd rather use a hardware synth for playing keyboard parts live, but Maschine has been awesome for the pattern-based grooves, both live and in production. I dread to think I'd have to use the Kronos sequencer or RPPR based stuff to replace it. It's just nowhere near as quick and easy to use, especially live.

It was just a Logic thing. The most recent updates seem to have fixed everything for me. Nevertheless, Maschine does use more resources than most plug-ins.

jamsire · Post by **jamsire** » Thu Nov 24, 2011 7:01 pm

SanderXpander wrote:I use Maschine inside Sonar as a plugin during production, inside Ableton as a plugin for live use and stand-alone alongside Traktor also live. I don't have any problems with it at all and I can't say my computers are state of the art (though they're not horrible either). I have no problems at all. Perhaps you guys are pushing it more than me, or it could be a Mac/PC thing? (I use PC)
Don't use Komplete though.

I'd rather use a hardware synth for playing keyboard parts live, but Maschine has been awesome for the pattern-based grooves, both live and in production. I dread to think I'd have to use the Kronos sequencer or RPPR based stuff to replace it. It's just nowhere near as quick and easy to use, especially live.

Yeah man - sounds good!

For some reason, my computer sees Maschine and says - "WHOA! WHAT'S THIS????" Anyway, do you have a lot of USB ports being used or active? I was hoping that when the Kronos OS 1.5 came out the I could put my padKontrol and MS20 into the Kronos and take those out of my powered USB hub.

Thanks for your reply.

SanderXpander · Post by **SanderXpander** » Thu Nov 24, 2011 7:59 pm

My laptop has three USB ports and the max I've had in there at the same time were an APC40, Maschine and an M-Audio Fast-Track Pro.

My DAW in the studio has not much in the USB department going on, apart from a printer and a trackball. My sound-card is PCI.

But Bruce suggested it could be a Logic thing? I agree that Maschine uses more resources than most plug-ins, as seems reasonable compared to the complexity of most plug-ins, but it's not problematic for me. Sorry to hear it's not been a good experience for you, because I absolutely love the workflow, especially as a plug-in (to combine it in a production with full on audio recording and processing).