Kronos II - when ?

[Randelph]

Kronos LE: basic set-up minus the SSD, which means you've got all those fabulous synthesis engines, and loaded with 1/2 gig of RAM, possibly with the XF system of upgradeable Flash RAM, plenty of room for decent piano/ep/other sounds.

Kronos Stage Piano: SSD but a M3 engine otherwise, so you'd have fantastic pianos/eps, and M3 quality everything else.

Improvements to existing Kronos:
1. Fully developed editors (esp. for the complex engines) that have various modes: full mode gives you full access, and with simpler modes you get a subset of important parameters, all done in a SIZEABLE, beautiful to work with graphic interface
2. Re-size fonts where possible
3. Add M3 improvements to sequencer AND spend considerable R&D to develop sequencer further
4. Etc.

But I'm surprised no one has talked about the obvious: with technology changing so quickly, with Roland lolly gagging in the workstation market, Kurzweil being underfunded and slow to market, Yamaha apparently biding their time or developing the next new thing...

WILL THERE EVEN BE A WORKSTATION MARKET (worth developing for) AS WE KNOW IT in 5 years?

For me the game changer would be to have Kronos capability and sound quality with improvements in the UI and user experience, similar to the kind of change as going from DOS to Macs. To make the technology of music even more user friendly is the next challenge if workstations in their next evolution are to catch on with more than a small group of technically savvy/willing guys.

[NuSkoolTone]

In some cases Yamaha even takes away features within a series "upgrade" - the original Motif could take Yamaha's DX and AN1 expansion boards. Somewhere along the line (XS?) that disappeared. Which was a major turn-off for me, instantly the Motif couldn't even compete with my Extreme with MOSS, let alone something like the Kronos, even if it's in places better with e.g. some ROMpler samples.

As a previous EX5 (Predecessor to the Motif series), Motif Classic with the AN board, and now an owner of an Motif XS I can tell you dropping the PLG expansion boards was no big deal. They were an afterthought at BEST, cumbersome, not integrated well, and just didn't sound as good as they did in the EX5 IMO. The only thing that was "New" was the DX card which had the same shortcomings with integration, and was available in a module for a couple hundred bucks anyway.

The EX5 was Yamaha's big step. However, a few engineering/cost cutting shortcuts drastically cut the synths potential and made some things disastrous to where it couldn't live up to its advertising claims. So much so, that motif series was released and previous EX5 owners were given coupons towards them.

The EX5 had AN (That sounded KILLER), VL (Great trumpets, flutes, etc...), and FDSP (Which was sort of like our EP-1 Engine + did some guitar stuff). if it weren't for the horrible SCSI interface, underpowered processors for the job, and a sample set that was a little anemic, it would have RULED. The motif has the sample set, SCSI interface, and sequencer the EX5 SHOULD have had.

If Yamaha has the nuts to do it and goes back the EX5 route now with plenty of processing available I would not be surprised at ALL to see a strong Kronos competitor in the near future! It's my belief that they've been sitting on it for years and milked the motif because honestly, until the Kronos nothing else even came close! IMO, and taking the $8000+ OA$Y$ out of the equation of course

[Vlad_77]

Many have already stated it so I will merely echo that there is no need for a Kronos II for many years to come. This instrument like its papa the OASYS is insanely powerful. I highly doubt that even .005% of the user base has completely mastered all facets of this bad girl.

.

Well, as I mentioned in my post, both OASYS and Kronos (and was flagged in the SOS Kronos review) - both are arguably underpowered processor-wise for what they pro-port to offer (remember the Kronos original blurb proclaiming that polyphonic limits were a thing of the past?)

Polyphony drops to single figures when any sort of layering or polyphonic unison is used, even in single programs let alone in combi mode. Only in single strong instruments like Pianos do you retain high polyphony. So the Kronos is not, by any stretch, capable of allowing creative instrumentalists harness all of its synth engines and libraries, simultaneously, in realtime. Other workstations are significantly underpowered in that regard too.

And I can assure you, there is a myriad of of composing scenarios where the OASYS and Kronos could do with heavier CPU capabilities.


But also - as the AL-1 editor by a member of this forum has shown, and as the virtual complete lack of programming of AL-1, MS20, STR1 and MOD7 reveal, and as you yourself have just stated - since these powerful synth engines remain far too elusive to virtually all users and hence almost completely unprogrammed, clearly they could all do with a GUI overhaul?


And - I've also mentioned ideas that could bring Karma out from it's essentially academic-level sophistication into the real-time world of the likes of RMX and other usable groove engines with a similar GUI and Sequencer-Integration overhaul.


Finally, that the JP80 has 256 voice polyphony indicates that greater polyphony is now ordinary.


OASYS and Kronos are powerful yes - and they are the best of the workstation world by a country mile - and I adore them both don't get me wrong - but they remain largely untapped and unharnessed synthesis-wise due to shortcomings in their current design. While all of the synth engines are grerat sounding and are quite good in design, the years that have passed with no programming suggest that STR-1 and MOD-7 in particular are simply too deep for most users and a latge part of that is their quite basic GUI implementation.


Surely there are reasonable arguments to overhaul these now quite old synth engines; before one even begins to think new innovations could better enhance the electronic musician's creative world.

Overall, I don't think there is any harm, heading on for two years after its release, to look at Kronos and make suggestions, offer feedback and postulate towards the future.


Surely that's part of the remit of being an electronic / computer musician with futurist interests in that regard?

I personally find it odd, and question, why people on a forum for cutting-edge electronic musical instruments, call into question those who project to the future and look for superior and innovative new instruments and designs. What are you doing on this forum if that's not of interest to you?

Kevin.

Kevin,

Your post is well considered but your last sentence was a tad brusque if you are asking me what I am doing here. But, since text is easily misinterpreted I will assume that I have mistakenly read some subtext into your statement.

I DO agree that there is room for improvements in Kromnos and development is part of that. What I was arguing AGAINST was a stripped down baby sister of Kronos. As to polyphony limits, I too have read much on Roland Clan regarding the fact that 256 on the 80 is not always a reality. But I am not slamming the 80 as it is a good synth.

I do not feel limited by the polyphony ceilings of any of the instruments I own but that does not mean that what I feel should apply to you or others. That said, I still stand by my assertion that OASYS and Kronos have allowed non-millionaire mortal musicians access to power reserved previous for people like McCartney and Alan Parsons among others.

You have written many excellent posts and they have helped me and I would wager many others here. You have explored your OASYS and obviously have found it musically superb such that you have stuck with it despite Korg's horrible decision to abandon it.

I appreciate your posts and thanks for the help! That is one of the reasons I am here

Namaste,
Vlad

[Purusha]

I reckon it'd be really nice if the next major revision was actually a software update rather than a hardware update.

Paid software update perhaps?

[jimknopf]

+1

[1jordyzzz]

i think there would be no kronos LE... but i do love the concept of kronos stage piano.. i mean, put SGX-1 and EP-1 on a keyboard, and sell them for 2500 US$ street price (much like roland rd series price).. it would be a BIG HIT for stage piano market
if there is a kronos LE, and if korg does still sane, they will not put all the 9 synth engine, nor even 3 of them.. it should be only HD-1 and AL-1 and maybe polysix, assuming that kronos LE will have less hardware and less processing power.
even when i take a first look at kronos specs, i think korg is out of their mind when they put 9 synth engine on a keyboard.. hell, they could just make 9 separate product and sell them for 1500-2500 US$ each

now every kronos owner have to squeeze their mind and learn how to use 9 self contained keyboard at once

[apex]

i think there would be no kronos LE... but i do love the concept of kronos stage piano.. i mean, put SGX-1 and EP-1 on a keyboard, and sell them for 2500 US$ street price (much like roland rd series price).. it would be a BIG HIT for stage piano market
if there is a kronos LE, and if korg does still sane, they will not put all the 9 synth engine, nor even 3 of them.. it should be only HD-1 and AL-1 and maybe polysix, assuming that kronos LE will have less hardware and less processing power.
even when i take a first look at kronos specs, i think korg is out of their mind when they put 9 synth engine on a keyboard.. hell, they could just make 9 separate product and sell them for 1500-2500 US$ each

now every kronos owner have to squeeze their mind and learn how to use 9 self contained keyboard at once

you say it like it's a bad thing.... lol

[michelkeijzers]

Maybe it's good to make a topic about the perfect synth.

Like:
- Program, Combi banks and set lists depending on free memory/SSD space (i.e. no limitations)
- All samples are streamable
- SSD can be interchanged
- Pentium I7
- Upto 16 GB Ram, expandable to 256GB
- External display (HDMI)
- LAN connection and WIFI (also for wireless MIDI)
- Full fledged editor (using WIFI or any other connection)
- More EXi's, and current EXis upgraded to version 9
- 3th party plugin EXis / OS additions

Well .. maybe in 10 years from new most of these specs are already outdated.

Almost there - except a little less RAM, no SSD, no network(?):
http://www.openlabs.com/nekoxxl.html
http://www.openlabs.com/nekoxxl-tech.html

Drawbacks: heavy, huge, expensive - in almost every respect "double Kronos"

Regards,
Jens

yes maybe I also should add non functional specs (light, compact, cheap) ... but I know, it would be contradictory.

[Darmin De'flern]

Wow crazy keyboard that need an oak table just to handle the wieght lol.

Lovely concept that though I allready use reaper to!