Korg Forums

My english is not the best!

The new KronosX will come soon but it seems it will not fill all my special wishes I have ...

And to stop that endless discussion here and in other forums, which hardware features and whishes are good and which are bad ... there are different workflows and so there are different whishes ... I'm not a pianist and not a keyboarder ... but I love synthesizers and syntheses very much!

I think the best idea would be to get a flexible system for users which are content to pay more money for it?

For example, I know another hardware product with a build in PC, where customers can tell the developer which special hardware they want (other CPU, other soundcard ... ) before buying! And I heard, too, that sometimes developers create special features for big studios, too!

EDIT:
I'm not a big studio but I'm working good and hard for my money! So Korg will get good money from me, too!


So for the Kronos:

For example I would pay 5.000 EUR for a KronosXL 88 with that hardware features:

- better CPU (for more polyphony)
- better motherboard (for good CPU)
- quiet but very good cooler (for good CPU ... )
- 5 years warranty

EDIT: Special OS features

- with a connector for an external display, too, I would pay 5.500 EUR
- with a sequencer update with piano roll ..., too, I would pay 6.000 EUR
- with the possibility to adjust programs detailed when the sequencer is running, too, I would pay 6500 EUR.
...

This thread is not a joke! Possibilities like this are still available with other hardware products!

And it's not necessary to discuss about which features are necessary and which not! My only question is, how much money I will need to pay to get my personal game changer!

So, let's talk about money here ...

@Korg: How much .... ?

Can't see Korg going into that price region ever again.

They tried it with the OASYS and sold something over 3,000 units worldwide (76 plus 88 key total). They discontinued the OASYS, released the Kronos and they now have sales way in excess of that just for one keyboard size alone...

Tells it's own story I think.

Of course, there are many users which won't pay so much money for it, so it could be only a special feature / possibility for users which are content to pay that!

Then that many discussions ... would be finished and all users could choose what they want and Korg could get the money for that.

All would be happy and Korg, too!

EDIT:
Like with sound expansions. If you want them you have to pay. So, if you want a better CPU ... you have to pay. It's the same?

And with DAWs it's the same, too. If you want the big Cubase Update you have to pay ...

EDIT:
I think, Oasys was another time, too! As it was released in 2005 it was a big alien in the market! But meanwhile time did change, too! And now / today a current Kronos looks technical a little bit like only a cheap netbook, so I want to have a 2012 big alien - and more money is OK for that ...

I think it is a much smarter concept for Korg to upgrade their hardware with the next generation workstation in two or three years: this way they will profit from their great software concept while not paying more for then cheaper available upgrade components.

The effort now for an XL version is very questionable, because only very few people would spend 5000 € or more, just to have these few extras. The Kronos just works too good as it is, and with a little bit of smart combi and setlist programming you get so far, that a second product line IMHO wouldn't pay at all at the moment. There's probably many more professional musicians who would rather like to buy a second Kronos as backup device, than spend so much for a single one.

jimknopf wrote:I think it is a much smarter concept for Korg to upgrade their hardware with the next generation workstation in two or three years: this way they will profit from their great software concept while not paying more for then cheaper available upgrade components.

The effort now for an XL version is very questionable, because only very few people would spend 5000 € or more, just to have these few extras. The Kronos just works too good as it is, and with a little bit of smart combi and setlist programming you get so far, that a second product line IMHO wouldn't pay at all at the moment. There's probably many more professional musicians who would rather like to buy a second Kronos as backup device, than spend so much for a single one.

That's the question, who knows what other companies will game changing in two or three years? Other hardware with modern build in PC technique is still available, so the Kronos still is build in the past!

Look here - hardware specifikations (at the bottom of that webside):

http://en.feeltune.com/products/151-rhi ... sheet.html

And to buy a second Kronos means a huge waste of space and paying money for double features, which you don't need! OK, as a backup device for live playing ... but in the studio for example, why should I pay money for two RH3 keybeds ... ?

From my view the Kronos is not "built in the past" at all.

When Dan Phillips mentioned how much binary code they have written during the last years (around 40Megabytes, if I remember right: that is terribly much in this format!), it became absolutely clear to me, that what they have developed is not something of the past, but for the future.

This code is ten times more coherent and efficient than any present Neko-like PC-keyboard out there from my view. And exactly this highly efficient code within a meanwhile very mature and coherent OS allows them to ignore all the more or less ignorant talk about the Intel Atom or their other limited hardware specs, and to use low priced hardware and still offer an extremely powerful machine.

It's a model that works both technically and economically, and I really admire this result of their R&D work over many years, the more I work with the Kronos and understand what's going on there.

jimknopf wrote:From my view the Kronos is not "built in the past" at all.

When Dan Phillips mentioned how much binary code they have written during the last years (around 40Megabytes, if I remember right: that is terribly much in this format!), it became absolutely clear to me, that what they have developed is not something of the past, but for the future.

This code is ten times more coherent and efficient than any present Neko-like PC-keyboard out there from my view. And exactly this highly efficient code allows them to ignore all the more or less ignorant talk about the Intel Atom or their other limited hardware specs, and to use low priced hardware and still offer an extremely powerful machine.

It's a model that works both technically and economically, and I really admire this result of their R&D work over many years, the more I work with the Kronos and understand what's going on there.

Of course, I think, too, that Korg did a good code working to get all this sound possibilities working with only a netbook Atom processor! I paid 1500 EUR for my studio PC with Core i7 to get my plugin collection good working ...

But I think that has nothing to do with our views! If I look to the current market, I will find hardware music products with much better modern PC technique in it - look to the product specifications from the link above!

And for me, if the Kronos would have a better CPU, I wouldn't need to program my sounds tricky and that voice stealing option wouldn't necessary, too! I could program like I want with that 9 syntheses and that is what I want - and I'm content to pay for that!

EDIT:
And then we could talk about real future!

Again:

I don't want to discuss the must of features or not! And I don't want criticize Korgs work here! Different musicians have different wishes! My question is, how much I have to pay, to get my wishes fulfill from Korg and if that is possible?

My goal is, too, to find a way which makes that Kronos attractive for more users and I think the reputation of the Kronos seems not to be the best at the moment if I read different forums ... so I think it's time for Korg, too, to improve that ... that's the reason I ask this in this forum ...

There's already a connector for a larger screen - USB. I for one would buy a pad, not necessarily an i one, as I'm not a fan of paying "apple tax", to use that as a much larger touch screen to program the K, even if it was just the K screen writ large. It would also save the amount of prodding the main screen.

zzz wrote:There's already a connector for a larger screen - USB. I for one would buy a pad, not necessarily an i one, as I'm not a fan of paying "apple tax", to use that as a much larger touch screen to program the K, even if it was just the K screen writ large. It would also save the amount of prodding the main screen.

It it possible to screen the Kronos display over USB to a big external display ?

An Ipad has no USB or?

clipnotic wrote:

zzz wrote:There's already a connector for a larger screen - USB. I for one would buy a pad, not necessarily an i one, as I'm not a fan of paying "apple tax", to use that as a much larger touch screen to program the K, even if it was just the K screen writ large. It would also save the amount of prodding the main screen.

It it possible to screen the Kronos display over USB to a big external display ?

An Ipad has no USB or?

Afaik it's not possible. However you can use the editor which is almost looking like the real screen in real time and display it on a 55" TV if you want.

About your first post: Korg is a commercial company. You want to pay $500 for several features however it probably costs way more to develop/test etc. So it needs to be bought buy at least a certain number of people. As explained above, most people don't pay much for a synth or at least not too much. The Oasys was ahead of its time but out of reach for most users. With a $6500 workstation it will end up like that too.

Upgrade packages is the way to go I think. But even then Korg needs to have at least some ide of least amount of potential buyers before starting with development.

michelkeijzers wrote:

clipnotic wrote:

zzz wrote:There's already a connector for a larger screen - USB. I for one would buy a pad, not necessarily an i one, as I'm not a fan of paying "apple tax", to use that as a much larger touch screen to program the K, even if it was just the K screen writ large. It would also save the amount of prodding the main screen.

It it possible to screen the Kronos display over USB to a big external display ?

An Ipad has no USB or?

Afaik it's not possible. However you can use the editor which is almost looking like the real screen in real time and display it on a 55" TV if you want.

About your first post: Korg is a commercial company. You want to pay $500 for several features however it probably costs way more to develop/test etc. So it needs to be bought buy at least a certain number of people. As explained above, most people don't pay much for a synth or at least not too much. The Oasys was ahead of its time but out of reach for most users. With a $6500 workstation it will end up like that too.

Upgrade packages is the way to go I think. But even then Korg needs to have at least some ide of least amount of potential buyers before starting with development.

Yes, that is what I meant: Upgrade packages. So every user could choose what he wants! If someone is happy with the current Kronos, he can buy it for 3.000 EUR and if not he can upgrade it for more money - like with every other PC on this world!

Well and development and testing ... of course you have to test such changes ... but it's not so much work to test another cpu for example, especially the Kronos is a PC ...

My occupational experience is, that it's mostly a mix of development and greed for money which designs prices! With every feature more, companies are thinking they can sell it as the new magic machine with an X for example ...

If I will go to my PC dealer and say to him "I want a new CPU" it will take one hour and I will have a new CPU ! OK, if my PC is to old he will say, I need other new components, too! But the Kronos still has new PC technique in it or not ??

EDIT:
I think Korg is a company like all the others. It's all about money ... so fine, how much?

In my personal opinion a piano roll should be included in all workstation midi keyboards. I don't think there is any excuse for it not to be included as its such a basic program that really adds to programing flexibility. I really don't understand why its missing from so many workstations.

Darmin De'flern wrote:In my personal opinion a piano roll should be included in all workstation midi keyboards. I don't think there is any excuse for it not to be included as its such a basic program that really adds to programing flexibility. I really don't understand why its missing from so many workstations.

Of course I think that, too! But the discussion about a piano roll for example was still available since the Oasys was released ... and it seems Korg ignores that wish like some other wishes since years ... perhaps because the Yamaha Motif has no piano roll, too? Who knows, Korg doesn't speak to us ... that's another problem, too! Nobody really knows what the real problems are ?

The main problem is, if you desire such whishes only for free, Korg or other users will tell you that such a feature is not necessary ... because they are only playing with their fingers or never used a freaky hardware sequencer or it's all about marketing ... ? This discussions are endless and you have no chance to win them!

But perhaps it works with a good money quotation? "Don't ask me why I want a feature but let me pay for it!"

cello wrote:Can't see Korg going into that price region ever again.

They tried it with the OASYS and sold something over 3,000 units worldwide (76 plus 88 key total). They discontinued the OASYS, released the Kronos and they now have sales way in excess of that just for one keyboard size alone...

Tells it's own story I think.

I'm afraid Cello is right...along with Michel, JimKnoph and others. I think a better course of strategy is to accept what Kronos is and enjoy it for that. If something super duper comes out in the future, get it.

DennyC wrote:

cello wrote:Can't see Korg going into that price region ever again.

They tried it with the OASYS and sold something over 3,000 units worldwide (76 plus 88 key total). They discontinued the OASYS, released the Kronos and they now have sales way in excess of that just for one keyboard size alone...

Tells it's own story I think.

I'm afraid Cello is right...along with Michel, JimKnoph and others. I think a better course of strategy is to accept what Kronos is and enjoy it for that. If something super duper comes out in the future, get it.

Well, if I remember some weeks back ... many users here thought, Korg's strategy is to not bring up a new hardware version of the Kronos the next years but first fix OS Updates and bugs ... and now, look: the new KronosX will come soon!

This message gave me a BIG hope for more !! If they can include a bigger harddisc and more Ram for more money, they can do it with my special wishes, too!!!!!!

EDIT:
By the way, what do you think, Korg releases the KronosX? I don't think they do this because the users accept what a current Kronos is, or?