Kronos Editor 2.0 - Feedbacks

[QuiRobinez]

my opinion about this:
i think that the V2 number raised most people expectations a little bit to much upfront. Basicly this whole discussion about the 64 bits missing and the lack of a modern editor is a rerun of the whole discussion about version 1.

Personally i'm sad that Korg didn't manage to keep up to par with their competitors when it comes to computer integration. I've also said this before in the V1 threads but it's really a bad design decision to not support 64 bits DAW environments. Now since windows 8 is released and delivered with new systems the mess is increasing in this area. You have to use 'old skool' external midi interfaces like the midex 8 again to keep continuing using the Kronos due to the fact that the midi driver doesn't seem to work in windows 8.

It's even sadder since Roland, Access and Yamaha don't have problems with 64 bits environments and in my opinion targeting only musicians that use the kronos in a band isn't a smart idea in the current market.

Korg decided to use Soundquest as an editor. It is what it is and we can't do anything about that. But there is a way out of this situation i think. Korg could keep the soundquest editor for deep editing on the computer as a old fashioned standalone 32 bits program.

But for the 64 bit DAW market i would think it would be a wise idea creating a new VST / AU editor that only can be used as a bank manager (for total recall) and give access to the RTC Parameters for every channel in a combi or sequence mode. That aren't that much parameters to implement and it would give people the opportunity to have total recall in their projects (which is a big deal in a 'home' studio when you work on multiple projects) and you can use the RTC parameters for automation in you projects. Such a solution shouldn't take to long to create by using a modern vst / au development environment.

The fact is that the korg driver worked with the Korg M3 editor in a 64 bit environment, so it's hard to understand for someone like me that the soundquest editor doesn't work since it uses the same driver. So creating a 64 bit new bankmanager / RTC (real time controls) VST or AU instrument should be possible since the Korg midi driver can run on 64 bits only.

[neomad]

I agree with you Qui. Moreover, Roland has also provided Ipad editor (even if not the best solution to me, that works great).

But I also believe that targeted market is sadly not the same: why not conciliate stage players and studio users? Virus TI was launched in 2005 ! (seven years ago!!!) and results are simply outstading on stage & studio (I've sold mine a few months ago).

My 2cts: Korg must recognize their mistake hiring soundquest as software editor (simple: soundquest ''technology'' is outdated) and announce a new editor coming from another company, even if they need to start from scratch. Even if I need to pay a fee !

Why? I do not want another version from soundquest (outdated technology, no 64 bits support, etc.). I prefer an official message from Korg: '' listening our premium customers claims, we have decided to stop collaboration with actual Kronos editor software company. A new editor will be launched as soon as possible and we are currently evaluating other companies to perform the job. Apologies. In the meantime, please feel free to send your suggestions to kronoseditor@korg.com''

[/i]

[ozdaniel(AD)]

I do not know how some people say that Kronos and the Kronos Editor has problems, mine works great, both PC and Mac!
I just say a sincere thank you KORG, for supporting free!

[BobTheDog]

Maybe we could have another sub-forum called "Kronos Editor" then all of of not interested in these posts wouldn't have to see them at all?

[Saxifraga]

Good idea Qui!

This SoundQuest product is not even a product on the Mac because it´s Carbon framework is deprecated. So it may or may not work with 10.8.
If Apple patches 10.8 it can cease to work any time. Bad decision to use SoundQuest.

I think they should ask Novation. The Ultranova software works very well and fast. (Ok, it´s monotimbral, but that is not such a big problem to handle.)

So now I will use my Kronos for playing and my M3-M (hopefully I get it after the weekend) with Radias and KLC for sequencing.

[Shakil]

Personally i'm sad that Korg didn't manage to keep up to par with their competitors when it comes to computer integration. I've also said this before in the V1 threads but it's really a bad design decision to not support 64 bits DAW environments.

Which other workstation has the same features as KRONOS AND offers a fully integrated VSTi for DAWs? Other workstations are SINGLE synth engines... KRONOS has 9 synth engines! Other workstations allow full editing from SONG mode, KRONOS does not!

[ed_f]

Overall, too many pessimistic comments

ok,ok - I will let the plugin speak for itself - when opened:

* * FAIL
--------------------------------------------------
AU VALIDATION FAILED: CORRECT THE ERRORS ABOVE.
--------------------------------------------------

validation result: failed validation

updating properties of AU Korg Kronos v2 by Sound Quest...done.

In this case, I am sorry but you are discussing Apple. This is an AU Validation bug introduced in 10.7.5 and acknowledged by Apple as being their error. They have discussed a fix but there has been no mention of a timeline. If you have not yet upgraded to 10.7.5, I would recommend staying away from it as this bug is affecting the AU authorization of a range of plug-ins.

Sorry but can't be a 10.7.5 bug - my studio mac is 10.6.8 and of all the plugins I have installed paid and free - this is the only one to fail. Literally the ONLY one. I have never seen this error before.

[Davidb]

The Kronos sequencer compared to the m3 or krome and total silence from korg on the issue is not them doing a fantastic job.

True, and its not something new.
Its something told and told "ab nauseam".
And still no word from Korg in this regard.

The non upgraded Kronos sequencer compared to other Korg models its something so many times reported, here in this forums and in other places as well.

The way people were kept in the dark for months over the initial keybed problem was not them doing a fantastic job either.

Absolutely.

Futhermore: Talking time to talk to worldwide distrubutors about the issue (as I did), reveals that they acknowledge this, even they will tell you that this policy of *say nothing for months* about an original defect in the manufacturing of 73 and 88 models had damaged a lot the image of the Kornos as a product, as well as Korg´s reputation.

Korg allowing this V2 editor to be released is also not them doing a fantastic job. They chose to use soundquest, they saw all the customer complaints about v1 and they chose to allow soundquest to continue down exactly the same route.

Again, bingo.

Its hard to accept and even more to explain why, as an example, the M3 plug in editor was able to work in 64 bit environments and the Kronos one cant.

Likewise, the new Krome workstation has an editor which seems to be more developed at least in its external graphic content and GUI, that the one supplied for the Kronos series.
And dont forget we are talking about a model with the 1/3 street price of the Kronos.

Korg chose to subcontract the editor to soundquest. If I get a builder to extend my house, if he uses subcontractors for part of it and those subcontractors do shoddy work, it doesn't matter how good the quality of work is by my actual builder, the end result, what he allowed through, is totally his fault.

Once more, correct.

[QuiRobinez]

Personally i'm sad that Korg didn't manage to keep up to par with their competitors when it comes to computer integration. I've also said this before in the V1 threads but it's really a bad design decision to not support 64 bits DAW environments.

Which other workstation has the same features as KRONOS AND offers a fully integrated VSTi for DAWs? Other workstations are SINGLE synth engines... KRONOS has 9 synth engines! Other workstations allow full editing from SONG mode, KRONOS does not!

in my studio i have working editors for the:
- Access Virus TI
- Roland GAIA
- Yamaha Motif XS
- Korg M3

All working in 64 bits environment on the same computer, the Kronos soundquest editor is the only editor that doesn't work in a 64 bit DAW. I really don't care about the 9 synth engines argument when it comes to 64 bits DAW support. It's a design flaw to not support modern DAW environments, especially when you have the best hardware workstation on the market but you have to use it in a studio environment like the synths that were available till 2007.

So for me this means when working on multiple projects that i don't have total recall and don't have the automation parameters that every competitor from korg has at the moment.

I'm not saying that the kronos is useless like some people do here, but it's hard to decline that when it comes to modern DAW integration they completely made the wrong decisions, and that is a big deal in 2012!

I really don't care about integrated audio over usb, that can be easely solved through an ADAT interface. But what is a big deal is that it is impossible to do total recall (so loading your song and the corresponding sounds are assigned to the correct channel) and to have full automation available, so that you can draw the automation lanes in your project.

to say that you can't expect a working solution because the kronos has 9 engines is a Non argument in my opinion. Korg made the decision to create a 32 bit only solution with an editor that not much people use (just check this forum about positive user experiences). It probably has cost a lot of money to create this editor due to the enormous time they needed to implement all parameters. In my opinion it wasn't hard to predict that people would be unhappy with the endresult when they simply can't use it.

I was expecting a solution like the Korg M3 editor (or the Krome editor that is almost the same). Although this runs in 32 bits mode in a 64 bit DAW it still works and that's how it should be. The M3 editor or Krome editor supports total recall and has automation parameters available in 32 and 64 bit daw environments.

So that's why i'm sad to see that the competitors have much better solutions for their workstation flagships available, the Kronos deserves simply an up to par solution.

[Shakil]

ed_f

Have you run the Stand Alone editor before using the plugin editor?

The manual says that you must run the stand alone editor at least once before using the plugin editor.

You can't really compare KRONOS plugin to any other... There is no other workstation with these many parameters...

Read this from the manual:

GarageBand
Apple’s GarageBand application provides only a limited amount of storage to each AU plug‐in. Even with effective
data compression, there is insufficient storage space to store a complete data dump from the KRONOS in the AU
plug‐in. As a result, it is critical that you only load bank and buffer entries that you will require for the project. If you
load more data into the editor than can be stored in the GarageBand host, then when the data is saved, an error
message will appear stating that GarageBand was unable to store all of the data.
As a result of this GarageBand limitation, we strongly recommend that you do not use the ALL BANKS “Get from
Kronos” SysEx data transfer function on the KRONOS Transfer page.
Note that this limitation exists only for GarageBand. Other AU hosts are able to load and transmit all KRONOS data.
Logic 8 and 9When large data transfers are made from the KRONOS to the KRONOS plug‐in, the Logic host application will
generate memory allocation errors even though the plug‐in is not requesting any memory from the host. These errors
also occur when simply recording the SysEx output of the KRONOS into Logic without the plug‐in installed.
It is not clear why these errors occur, other than that the errors are unrelated to the Korg KRONOS software.
We recommended that, if you are using Logic as your AU host, you should load smaller amounts of data from the
KRONOS at a time ‐ just one or two banks at a time. Also, save frequently when transferring data from the KRONOS
to the plug‐in.
These memory allocation errors cause Logic to reset all of the plug‐ins currently in use and loads them with the last
known good saved data. If you do not save the Logic song frequently and one of these resets occurs, you will find
that you will have lost all of the data that was loaded from the Kronos and you will need to start over.
Please note that this only an issue when receiving the data from the KRONOS. Transmission to the KRONOS works
without issue.
Also, there is a way to avoid this problem completely. After instantiating the KRONOS plug‐in, instead of loading
data from the instrument, load a Set file from disk that contains the same data as is currently found in theKRONOS.
This completely bypasses the SysEx load process and avoids the potential of a Logic reset."

[Shakil]

Personally i'm sad that Korg didn't manage to keep up to par with their competitors when it comes to computer integration. I've also said this before in the V1 threads but it's really a bad design decision to not support 64 bits DAW environments.

Which other workstation has the same features as KRONOS AND offers a fully integrated VSTi for DAWs? Other workstations are SINGLE synth engines... KRONOS has 9 synth engines! Other workstations allow full editing from SONG mode, KRONOS does not!

in my studio i have working editors for the:
- Access Virus TI
- Roland GAIA
- Yamaha Motif XS
- Korg M3

All working in 64 bits environment on the same computer, the Kronos soundquest editor is the only editor that doesn't work in a 64 bit DAW. I really don't care about the 9 synth engines argument when it comes to 64 bits DAW support. It's a design flaw to not support modern DAW environments, especially when you have the best hardware workstation on the market but you have to use it in a studio environment like the synths that were available till 2007.

So for me this means when working on multiple projects that i don't have total recall and don't have the automation parameters that every competitor from korg has at the moment.

I'm not saying that the kronos is useless like some people do here, but it's hard to decline that when it comes to modern DAW integration they completely made the wrong decisions, and that is a big deal in 2012!

I really don't care about integrated audio over usb, that can be easely solved through an ADAT interface. But what is a big deal is that it is impossible to do total recall (so loading your song and the corresponding sounds are assigned to the correct channel) and to have full automation available, so that you can draw the automation lanes in your project.

to say that you can't expect a working solution because the kronos has 9 engines is a Non argument in my opinion. Korg made the decision to create a 32 bit only solution with an editor that not much people use (just check this forum about positive user experiences). It probably has cost a lot of money to create this editor due to the enormous time they needed to implement all parameters. In my opinion it wasn't hard to predict that people would be unhappy with the endresult when they simply can't use it.

I was expecting a solution like the Korg M3 editor (or the Krome editor that is almost the same). Although this runs in 32 bits mode in a 64 bit DAW it still works and that's how it should be. The M3 editor or Krome editor supports total recall and has automation parameters available in 32 and 64 bit daw environments.

So that's why i'm sad to see that the competitors have much better solutions for their workstation flagships available, the Kronos deserves simply an up to par solution.

None of the other workstations synths has as many parameters as the KRONOS. It may be the limitations in the host environments not being able to handle that much data.

[QuiRobinez]

None of the other workstations synths has as many parameters as the KRONOS. It may be the limitations in the host environments not being able to handle that much data.

that's not the problem, the problem is that the soundquest editor doesn't work in a 64 bit daw environment. The amount of parameters is completely irrelevant in this case.

[Shakil]

There are a lot of 32 bit only VSTis.... Have you tried using JBridge?

[SoundQuest]

ok,ok - I will let the plugin speak for itself - when opened:

* * FAIL
--------------------------------------------------
AU VALIDATION FAILED: CORRECT THE ERRORS ABOVE.
--------------------------------------------------

validation result: failed validation

updating properties of AU Korg Kronos v2 by Sound Quest...done.

In this case, I am sorry but you are discussing Apple. This is an AU Validation bug introduced in 10.7.5 and acknowledged by Apple as being their error. They have discussed a fix but there has been no mention of a timeline. If you have not yet upgraded to 10.7.5, I would recommend staying away from it as this bug is affecting the AU authorization of a range of plug-ins.

Sorry but can't be a 10.7.5 bug - my studio mac is 10.6.8 and of all the plugins I have installed paid and free - this is the only one to fail. Literally the ONLY one. I have never seen this error before.

So what you're saying is that the Apple engineer who admitted that there is a problem and showed the code segment where the problem is located is wrong. The bug doesn't affect all plug-ins but it does affect Kronos' on 10.7.5. Run 10.7.4 and you'll find that it is fine.

[QuiRobinez]

There are a lot of 32 bit only VSTis.... Have you tried using JBridge?

yes i've tried that , you can start the editor then but it can't be used due to the Midi driver limitations of the editor (as far as i can see it uses an own midi protocol instead of the daw midi connectors, but now i'm guessing)