Kronos letdown

[digiplay]

Hi guys!

I just joined the Korg Forum, so be gentle with me if I'm not posting correctly!

Here's what I have to say about the Korg Kronos after playing it for around an hour at my local Korg store.

The Dealer had a 88 and a 61. Without a doubt the Kronos is the BEST sounding keyboard out at this time. I LOVED the action on the 61, but didn't like the 88's action at all.

That being said, whatever keyboard I use at any given time (I'm using a Yamaha MOTIF ES7 now), all of the Performance that I play always have splits with several other sounds (like Bass, Organ, Brass, Strings, etc.) going on at the same time with a Piano or a Electric Piano sound.

I noticed, for ALL of the non Piano sounds, that the 88 took a full, definite push to get the sounds to play, and sometimes it sounded like it was not sensing the light touches I use on the majority of my other sounds.

However, I found that the 61 was FAR more sensitive/expressive for the non Piano sounds.

So here's why i didn't buy the Kronos (and I wanted to buy one SO bad!!!).

I asked how much the 73 was and was told that it only came with the same weighted action as the 88!

Why didn't Korg keep the same formula as they have always used of offering a 61 or 73/76 in a semi weighted action model (like the M3 73/Triton 76), as well as a weighted action 88?

That the 73 came only with a weighted action was a deal killer for me, as I didn't like the action of the 88, and I need more than 61 keys.

Any comments/opinions about what I just said?

Thanks!

[billbaker]

Without knowing the velocity curves used in each keyboard it's hard to say why the response of that particular 88 was so bad (for you) or if it's more generically an issue of non-responsive keys.

Weighted keys are usually seen as a premium rather than a penalty. That Korg would offer a shorter weighted keyboard for a synth that was touted as THE new standard for pianos just made sense, since piano usually benefits greatly from a weighted (natural) keyboard where more organ-style synth playing goes better with a non-weighted board (historically, early synths were all semi- or un-weighted - so the 61-key follows tradition there.)

There has been an ongoing problem (see the archived posts) regarding the difficulty or impossibility of getting the upper range of velocities using the weighted version of Kronos. That would mainly be an issue where even heavy playing didn't get the expected response, but light playing might well fall at the very low end of the velocity spectrum. So that might also have been at play here.

BB

[digiplay]

BB,

When you say:

"Weighted keys are usually seen as a premium rather than a penalty",

doesn't that mainly apply to players using the keyboard mainly for Piano?

If one buys the 88 because it's obviously the best action for serious Piano players, how about the rest of us players that rely on Saxes, Flutes, Organs, Drums, etc. when we play/compose songs?

Thanks!

[geoelectro]

I would have bought an unweighted 73 note if it had been available. Instead I bought the 61 note. I have a Yamaha P-80 that I can MIDI up for weighted keys. The P-80 happens to have a great action. Sometimes I only bring the Kronos 61 when just playing organ and synth stuff. If there is piano I bring the P-80 too.

Turns out I have been able to accomplish my splits within the 61 notes. Also, having the ability to switch sounds without the sound stopping makes it possible to expand the splits across more than one patch. I actually love the portability of the K61.

Geo

[QuiRobinez]

I noticed, for ALL of the non Piano sounds, that the 88 took a full, definite push to get the sounds to play, and sometimes it sounded like it was not sensing the light touches I use on the majority of my other sounds.

However, I found that the 61 was FAR more sensitive/expressive for the non Piano sounds.

So here's why i didn't buy the Kronos (and I wanted to buy one SO bad!!!).

You should check which velocity curve is used. The default between piano and synth action is 4.
If you are mostly interested in the piano response you should use the Velocity curve 9 which is developed specificly for piano playing. Standard the velocity curve is at 4, which is a mix for synth and piano playing.

Just give it another go in the store and press the global button and select 9 for the velocity curve and try the piano you will have a totally different feeling when you play the piano now. So maybe the store unit wasn't on curve 4 and changed by someone else?

On curve 4 i have absolutely no dynamics problems with synth sounds. When i use curve 9 it's a lot harder to play synth sounds with the dynamics.

Just check several of the curves until you find one that suits your playing style.

[jeebustrain]

BB,

When you say:

"Weighted keys are usually seen as a premium rather than a penalty",

doesn't that mainly apply to players using the keyboard mainly for Piano?

If one buys the 88 because it's obviously the best action for serious Piano players, how about the rest of us players that rely on Saxes, Flutes, Organs, Drums, etc. when we play/compose songs?

Thanks!

One option you always have is to use a second USB controller (say, an M-Audio Axiom like me) wired to the USB port. It's a tiny bit more gear, but it offers a bunch of extra flexibility. Most controllers (like the Axiom) will even self-power over USB, so there's literally one extra cable. This gives you the option of choosing your idea keybed for whatever you need. I find the Axiom is a great contrast to the heavy K88 keys.

[digiplay]

Buying a second Semi Weighted Controller is an option, but I recently sold a Nord Electro 3 61 because I got tired of carrying a second keyboard to our gigs. For those who play live on a regular basis, you know where I'm coming from!

But remember that my major complaint was that playing the 88, for lack of a better word, felt "un-natural" (to me) for any non Piano sound. That's why a 73 key Semi Weighted Kronos would have:
1) Solved my dilema of carrying a second keyboard.
1) Given he action I prefered.
2) Allowed me to have ANY sound (because of all its Engines) at my disposal.
3) Would have been lighter than a Hammer Action keyboard.

That being said, do you think it's just a problem of my being so used to a Semi Weighted keyboard (which possibly is why the 88 felt "un-natural" to me), or would most of you agree that playing Organ, Horns, Bass, etc. is truly easier/more desirable on a Semi Weighted keyboard?

Thanks!

[geoelectro]

I played a semi-weighted Triton pro for years. I agree that for most non-piano sounds that action is perfect and the keyboard is easy to transport. In recent years I added an 88-note controller as I was getting more and more into piano. So my rig has been two keyboards. Lower 88-note, upper 76 note.

Now with the Kornos, I have 61 note upper. However, I have yet to bring the 88-note to my gig. It's a compromise but for now the portability is more important than the action. That's really the question we all have to face. Where to compromise.

I feared 61 notes was going to kill me for splits but I have found creative ways around the limits. I mentioned in another post about retuning notes by placing them in groups in a combi and tuning them beyond the keyboard range. I made notes in the Set List for that song. I have also used the fact that a sound keeps playing while switching to another set list patch opening up a whole nuther keyboard in effect for additional sounds and splits.

The K61 is so light I am amazed. Much lighter than the Triton 76. I may have to bring the 88-note at some time but if that's what it takes to get the job done...

I would have major problems trying to play all the sounds I typically use on a weighted action. Some would be OK but organ...no way.

Geo

[alanjpearson]

I WANTED a weighted 73 and it was the only one that is made and that I could carry!!
Fit my bill exactly

R
Alan

[Diego5150]

Digi,
I had the exact same reservations you are having with the weighted / semi weighted issue prior to purchasing my 73x and I can honestly say that it was not only a matter of getting used to the weighted keys but that it improved my playing over all quite a bit.
It all comes down to what you think, so like it has been stated prior go back to the store, bring a set of head phones and jam until you are positivley sure which way you want to go.

[seapea]

But remember that my major complaint was that playing the 88, for lack of a better word, felt "un-natural" (to me) for any non Piano sound.
Thanks!

I bought my Kronos 73, having had Triton Extreme and M3 unweighted 73s. While I would still prefer unweighted 73, I have made the transition, and it is not an issue for me. I do not play much piano. Took some adjustment. Admittedly, I have a seperate Hammond Organ, and I think the weighted would be an issue if you played a lot of organ on the weighted. Cheers

[X-Trade]

You could always go for a 61 with an additional 61-key MIDI controller. That has been my preferred live workstation setup for years. Saves having to worry so much about splits and layers.

[Mike777]

I'm very disappointed with the 88 action as well. I played a Kronos 88X for the first time 2 days ago in the music store and was blown away by the pianos! But the action is so stiff! I feel the key weight is too heavy.

If only the action was adjustable. Can I adjust the weight level somehow if I open it? Or does the previous 88 key model have lighter action? Haven't tested it. I want an 88 key.

[Davidb]

I'm very disappointed with the 88 action as well. I played a Kronos 88X for the first time 2 days ago in the music store and was blown away by the pianos! But the action is so stiff! I feel the key weight is too heavy.

If only the action was adjustable. Can I adjust the weight level somehow if I open it? Or does the previous 88 key model have lighter action? Haven't tested it. I want an 88 key.

The service center at my Korg distrubutor told me that "it may be possible" to adjust the action of the keyboard internally to have a less stiff behaviour response, but its something "they have to do themselves, as its not easy nor accesible"".

[Ojustaboo]

As I've said numerous times before, I've had two Kronos 88's, one was replaced due to the infamous keybed problem.

The replacement (had the original and the replacement sent direct from korg UK this October) had a completely different keybed, black keys different texture, action totally different, hard to put into words but if you played them blindfolded next to each other, you wouldn't consider them the same instrument.

I preferred the replacement by miles.

My point being, you could go into two different shops and find the Kronos has different actions and you may find you like the other one.

Of course you then have the problem (unless your mad enough to buy the display model) that the boxed brand new one might not be the same keybed as the one you demoed.