Krome Sequencer vs Kronos

Discussion relating to the Korg Kronos Workstation.

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Toumal
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Krome Sequencer vs Kronos

Post by Toumal »

Ok folks, let me start of that I love my Kronos. It's a bit pricy considering the build quality and there's quite a lot of UI clunkyness going on, but it's a great synth workstation. I love tinkering with sounds so the ability to play with VA synths right there is awesome, as are the natural sounds, piano, etc.

There's one thing I don't touch with a 10 foot pole, and that's the sequencer. I see a people post how Kronos isn't that bad, it's a great sequencer for the money etc. but really, no. It's not. I'm still using my Roland Fantom G6 if I want to quickly jot down ideas and it's an amazing sequencer with an incredibly good usability. Nowhere near as versatile as a real DAW but what it does, it does well. And maybe with the exception of their "phrase" concept, totally easy to grasp even without a manual.

The Kronos sequencer is a barren wasteland. The midi event editing is a joke and feels like painting a room from the outside, through the keyhole of a locked door. Now for some this may be totally adequate, and that's fine by me, but there's no debate about whether and how this compares to what's out there.

So there's plenty of updates but they're mostly small bugfixes with a few notable exceptions. All nice and dandy.


But then, this:



Image

Image

Why does the M3 have a usable sequencer, the $1000 Krome has a usable sequencer, but the Kronos is stuck with this barebone implementation?

It's not price, there's no way to argue about how $1000 nets you a good sequencer but almost $3000 does not. It's also not the later date because unless I'm mistaken, the M3 got it's sequencer update before the Kronos came out.

Is there any hope for the Kronos to get some sequencer love? Like a proper piano roll, a more modern midi event editor (doesn't have to be super visual, heck the "microscope" view on the Fantom is pretty basic but highly usable and gets the job done!) visual copy/paste and arrangement functionality etc?
Access Virus TI, Roland Fantom G-6, Korg Kronos
1jordyzzz
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Post by 1jordyzzz »

yes i do hope korg listens to this... my ultimate request
Love my kronos 88 :D
Love my yamaha psr s910 as well

Korg Kronos 88, Yamaha PSR s910, Korg C720, Yamaha DTX 520, Focusrite Scarlett 18i6, a pair of Yamaha HS80 in (soon not to be) an unproperly treated room..
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Post by Niblit »

SO, IF, AND WHEN, they get their buts in gear and give Kronos all the sequencer loveliness a £3000 FLAGSHIP workstation deserves: Will we all be turning out better tunes? Will we all suddenly become the composers we thought we should be?

Doubt it.

Pay 500 quid for a hammer, and it may feel nice, it may be polished and may have perfect balance but at the end of the day IT JUST HITS NAILS. It doesn't hit them any differently than a cheap hammer. The result is dependant on the person using it.

Listen to the inspirational music of JMJ and think about HOW he did it.
HARD, DEDICATED, LONG HOURS, BIT BY BIT, NOTE BY NOTE, TOTALLY MIND NUMBING OVER AND OVER AGAIN AND AGAIN TO GET ONE TRACK.

Ok, KORG..... GET YOUR ASS IN GEAR.... NEW SEQUENCER. NOW!,,,,,
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Davidb
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Re: Krome Sequencer vs Kronos

Post by Davidb »

Toumal wrote:
Why does the M3 have a usable sequencer, the $1000 Krome has a usable sequencer, but the Kronos is stuck with this barebone implementation?

*Sarcasm mode on*

Ouch!

*Sarcasm mode off*



It's not price, there's no way to argue about how $1000 nets you a good sequencer but almost $3000 does not. It's also not the later date because unless I'm mistaken, the M3 got it's sequencer update before the Kronos came out.

Is there any hope for the Kronos to get some sequencer love? Like a proper piano roll, a more modern midi event editor ...
*Sarcasm mode on*

Dude, by saying all that, you have not idea the garden you are getting into.

I doubt you are going to do a lot of friends over here.

*Sarcasm mode off*

;)
Regards.
D.
RlaRed
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Post by RlaRed »

I fully agree... It's ridiculous they have not released a sequencer update now considering the price.
Current Gear: Korg Kronos 2 88, Focusrite 18i8, Sonar Platinum, Win 10 64-bit, 8-gig ram

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Saxifraga
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Post by Saxifraga »

Niblit wrote:SO, IF, AND WHEN, they get their buts in gear and give Kronos all the sequencer loveliness a £3000 FLAGSHIP workstation deserves: Will we all be turning out better tunes? Will we all suddenly become the composers we thought we should be?

Doubt it.

Pay 500 quid for a hammer, and it may feel nice, it may be polished and may have perfect balance but at the end of the day IT JUST HITS NAILS. It doesn't hit them any differently than a cheap hammer. The result is dependant on the person using it.

Listen to the inspirational music of JMJ and think about HOW he did it.
HARD, DEDICATED, LONG HOURS, BIT BY BIT, NOTE BY NOTE, TOTALLY MIND NUMBING OVER AND OVER AGAIN AND AGAIN TO GET ONE TRACK.

Ok, KORG..... GET YOUR ASS IN GEAR.... NEW SEQUENCER. NOW!,,,,,
Bla bla bla.

Basic falacy. Red herings all over the place.

And your last request is the opposit what you argue abouve. Maybe it was irony? Bad try.
|'|'||'|'|'||'|'| / Physis Piano H1 / Roland Fantom G6 + ARX-01 & 02 / M3 61 & EXB-Radias & 256 MB / Arturia vCollection 3 / KLC / Minimonsta / Kawai K5000 S + R / Moog Little Phatty Stage II / Novation Ultranova / Roland JX-305 / TE OP-1 / iPad & microKey 25 & iODock. / Yamaha Rm1x & QY100 / Logic 9 & Mainstage |'|'||'|'|'||'|'|
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JPWC
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Post by JPWC »

WOW dudes, lots of demands,

The Good news, I have both the sound of the Kronos and the sequencing of Krome.

The Bad news, It cost me an extra $1000.

The equalizer, I love them both.
Kronos-6, Krome, M3, Radias, KingKorg, microKorg, KP-2, KP-3, KO-1, KO-1 PRO, Karma, microX, monotron, monotribe, PadCONTROL, Wavedrum Mini, Volca Keys, Beats, Bass, Sample, monotron Duo & Delay, microArranger, M1, Wavestation, Volca Sample, Keys, Beats & Bass, MS-20

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Post by zengomi »

Krome Sequencer vs Kronos
That's hardly a fair comparison. The sequencer of one unit versus the entirety of another. Since this thread is all about nitpicking, I'll pick a nit :lol:

Seriously, though, one reason--not the main one--I bought a Kronos was for a handy sequencer that is not as robust (and distracting) as one in a DAW. Limitations can be liberating :idea:
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Saxifraga
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Post by Saxifraga »

JPWC wrote:WOW dudes, lots of demands,

The Good news, I have both the sound of the Kronos and the sequencing of Krome.

The Bad news, It cost me an extra $1000.

The equalizer, I love them both.
Yeah. That makes sense. But only for Korg.
Maybe that´s the new modular synth approach?
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Toumal
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Post by Toumal »

zengomi wrote:
Krome Sequencer vs Kronos
Seriously, though, one reason--not the main one--I bought a Kronos was for a handy sequencer that is not as robust (and distracting) as one in a DAW. Limitations can be liberating :idea:
While I respect your opinion, I completely disagree that the Kronos sequencer is a shining example of simplicity, and that the limitations are of a liberating kind. Thing is, that sequencer right there does a lot of things, it's just that it's incredibly time consuming to work with. On the Fantom I just grab a block with a bunch of notes (a "phrase" as they call it there), and drag it around, drop it right where I want it. Heck I can even use the mouse for that, though I am usually just using the jogwheel. Holding the shift key acts like a mouse button and just whirling that jogwheel around makes that phrase move around, it's a joy. Copypasta? Single key press. Drag where needed, done.

On the Kronos? "Please enter the exact time index of where to put this"
Oh crap, back out again, find out where I wanted it, redo the operation, key in the right bar, press ok. Curse because it wasn't the right spot, rinse, repeat.

Heck, midi event edit is another great example. The first couple attempts I thought my touchscreen was miscalibrated because some filter dialog kept popping up. I thought I hit the wrong button by accident. But no, that dialog pops up before the actual event edit page comes up, and it allows you to filter the displayed events. Want other filter criteria? Close the whole thing, open it up again.

Seriously. If you think the Kronos Sequencer is ok, then you should really try a Fantom sometime. It's sad because there's a lot of fantastic sounds in the Kronos, but the sequencer button will probably remain in factory condition for as long as I have this machine. Or until Korg fixes the sequencer ;)

I'd say the M3 sequencer (only tried it in the shop but still...) isn't as easy to use as the Fantom - but really, it's good enough for most things. I could live with it. Here's hoping Korg has mercy with us.
Access Virus TI, Roland Fantom G-6, Korg Kronos
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jimknopf
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Post by jimknopf »

One thing after the other.
It is much easier to implement new software into a new structure than into an already existing one, especially into a complex OS like that of the Kronos.

Up to now I am very impressed about the way Dan Pilipps and his R&D team have developed the Kronos since the day I bought it. I have considerable trust into the work of this team, and would not be surprised if they update the Kronos sequencer within their own time frame.

This is a subject where I share the common wish, but opt for patience. It was much more important to get the things the OS updates have provided so far, and the next step might follow according to priority.
Kronos 73 - Moog Voyager RME - Moog LP TE - Behringer Model D - Prophet 6 - Roland Jupiter Xm - Rhodes Stage 73 Mk I - Elektron Analog Rytm MkII - Roland TR-6s - Cubase 12 Pro + Groove Agent 5
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Toumal
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Post by Toumal »

I see you have a Virus too. Gotta say that the Kronos works a lot better than the Virus TI did when it came out. Took them over a year to get that thing running somewhat stable.

Back when the M3 got the sequencer update I was really surprised, it was a major thing in my opinion, very much unexpected for a company to do such a big firmware update. I hope they give the Kronos similar love, but on the other hand I fear that with the Krome available, they're less inclined to do so.

It would help if we could get some form of official word on this, whether it's completely out of the question, possible, or very much planned.
Access Virus TI, Roland Fantom G-6, Korg Kronos
LivePsy
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Post by LivePsy »

When OS 2 came out for M3, the sequencer upgrades changed the sequencer from scratch pad to actually useful. Although it does need better scrolling and zooming abilities. Its a different code base to the Oasys/Kronos, so there is a natural separation between the Oasys/Kronos and M3/Krome branches. But why didn't the Oasys family get the piano roll first?

Anyone who doesn't care because they prefer a DAW anyway thanks for letting Korg off the hook, traitor! :)

B
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Post by zengomi »

Toumal wrote:
zengomi wrote:
Krome Sequencer vs Kronos
Seriously, though, one reason--not the main one--I bought a Kronos was for a handy sequencer that is not as robust (and distracting) as one in a DAW. Limitations can be liberating :idea:
While I respect your opinion, I completely disagree that the Kronos sequencer is a shining example of simplicity, and that the limitations are of a liberating kind.
I didn't say the Kronos sequencer was a shining example of anything. And liberation is a personal thing. So with what are you completely disagreeing?

I'm not sure why you've done so, but you've made your point that the sequencer isn't for you. I'm not going to spend a second of my life trying to change your mind.

I can use the sequencer without frustration. The limitations that you cite don't bother me. If I need functions that it doesn't have, I sequence with my DAW and then transfer the data to my Kronos using LAN.
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Post by Shakil »

The KRONOS sequencer still wins overall because of the audio tracks... my only wish is for to be able to change tracks while recording....
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