Anyone interested in an Editor "buy group"

Discussion relating to the Korg Kronos Workstation.

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Ojustaboo
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Post by Ojustaboo »

Shakil wrote:
xmlguy wrote: A fixed window layout with disabled maximize button and no resizing is embarrassing to see in this day and age of cheap HD LCD displays and multi-display setups.
Show me any other VSTi or sound editor with resizable graphics and window....
While that is true, it doesn't mean we should simply accept this and not ask for better.

I have a dual monitor setup with two different sized monitors. I just replaced my main one with one that has a native resolution of 2560x1440

Cubase works superbly on that screen, but for me, things like the karma labs software is simply unusable, not being able to resize means a lot of screens are just a blur to me. If I didn't have my 2nd monitor, I simply couldn't use karma software anymore.

I'm not picking on karma software, its simply that for me, that is the one currently causing me the most pain.

All editor and vst developers need to realise that the price of good quality hi resolution monitors are dropping weekly and give it a year or two, if they don't at least offer a few different default sizes (if they can't make them properly resizable), for a lot of studios etc, the software simply won't be practical to use (lowering the resolution of the monitor is not a practical solution)
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Ojustaboo
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Post by Ojustaboo »

miden wrote:Sorry to say this guys, and as MUCH as I respect your principle on this...we need to perhaps set this aside, compromise and we MAY just be successful.

We need lots of positive people to agree to look at a group buy and to try to avoid the negative comment.

I am not saying keep it quiet or hide it under the carpet...not at all, I think there have already been PLENTY of posts on the negatives and I did not start this thread as yet another platform for folks to soapbox...

So if you do not want to participate, fine, no problem, but save the speech making for the other threads you have already posted the same, or VERY similar comments to..

Thanks
While I understand your point of view, I don't agree with it.

How many people that are willing to join you on this venture are doing so because they want lots of the features the (way overpriced) paid for version offers?

And how many are simply doing so so that they can have a basic 64 bit Kronos editor working in their daw.

If most fall into the first camp, then fine, I'll shut up.

But if as I expect, most fall into the second camp then to be perfectly honest I really hope your idea fails and you either don't get enough people, or the discount given is so small compared to the rip off cost, that people drop out.

The reason is simple, as others have stated, its very outdated software and to have to pay anything over about $30 to have a version that works in 64bit mode in this day and age is simply a rip off. And if they get away with it now, and enough people cave in and buy it, they have zero incentive to get their act together in the future, in fact your fuelling their bad business methods.

If midiquest 10 is $219 and the xl version is $299, I doubt version 11 is going to be any cheaper.

If they gave you a 25% discount for getting 30 buyers, your still talking either $165 or $225 just for most people to get 64bit versions.

If they simply dropped their prices by about 80-90% for all users, chances are most Kronos users would buy it and they would make far more money than they will with their current pricing that means only a handful of people with money to burn, buys it.

I'm not a programming expert by any means, I do know a fair bit about a few programming languages I've used over the years, and I suspect that it would have taken next to no time to compile a 64bit version if they wished to do so, probably just a matter of a few different options at compile time and inclusion of a few different libraries that soundquest obviously have at their disposal.

If korg was in a meeting with me to discuss a programming project, I wouldn't want to give the appearance of an outdated company that's not up to date with current hardware and daws, and no mater how little money was on the table, both a 32bit and 64bit version would automatically be included in any deal.

Google compiling 64bit software and read a few articles on what's involved for different programming languages. Then you may understand why I and others feel so strongly about this.

What soundquest are doing is holding people to ransom if people want versions of editors that run in a modern daw.
miden
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Post by miden »

whatever man :roll:
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jimknopf
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Post by jimknopf »

miden, I don't want to get in the way of the group buy idea.

Just go ahead, and I will keep out of this thread, after my own decision is clear now.
Kronos 73 - Moog Voyager RME - Moog LP TE - Behringer Model D - Prophet 6 - Roland Jupiter Xm - Rhodes Stage 73 Mk I - Elektron Analog Rytm MkII - Roland TR-6s - Cubase 12 Pro + Groove Agent 5
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Post by miden »

thanks :)
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Post by Scatter »

Ojustaboo wrote: If they simply dropped their prices by about 80-90% for all users, chances are most Kronos users would buy it and they would make far more money than they will with their current pricing that means only a handful of people with money to burn, buys it.
+1
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Post by Corgy »

BasariStudios wrote:As far as i know Kontakt is the only resizable VST Plugin and NO other...
but this is still a bunch of Bologni.
Just let me add that Zebra 2 (from U-He) also supports some different but fixed window sizes.
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Sharp
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Post by Sharp »

Thread Closed at the request of the original poster in order to start another that's kept on topic.
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Post by Sharp »

I'm undoing this as I feel I'm wrong to close the thread. No rules have been broken.

lol... Just don't tell anyone I made a mistake. :wink:

Regards
Sharp.
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michelkeijzers
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Post by michelkeijzers »

I think it's up to SoundQuest what they want to ask for it. Of course users can start such a 'poll' but the end result always comes from the seller.

I don't think they will let their prices fall too much, even if more people would buy it, because they don't have any excess potential buyers anymore.

Software creation is very time consuming and if commercially used, thus expensive. For example. PCG Tools costed till now about 500-1500 hours (not counted exact hours). Given a normal software engineers salary of $50 (which is very low), it would result in (let's assume 1000 hours): $50.000. For 100 buyers it would thus mean $500. Nobody would give that kind of money.

Of course SoundQuest makes far more superior pruducts but that costs even more hours. Let's say 10.000 hours time $50 is $500.000. But they have a much larger (potential) customer base.
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Ojustaboo
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Post by Ojustaboo »

michelkeijzers wrote:I think it's up to SoundQuest what they want to ask for it.
Yep it is.

But if the vast majority of people think its overpriced, they are obviously charging too much.

Korg could have released the oasys for $15k and the Kronos for $10k, but if they had, while I suspect a handful of wealthy people still bought them, most would be on here complaining that its simply too much.

As it is, most people, even those unable to afford a Kronos, don't think its overpriced, whereas most people do think having to pay soundquest that much just for 64bit support is.

And as things stand, chances are for every one person willing to shell out $210 for the soundquest editor, there's at least 30 that would like the 64bit support that aren't willing.

If those 31 people could all buy for $30, soundquest have taken in $930 instead of $210

Times that by 10 and instead of them taking in $2100, they have taken in $9300

Obviously there will initially be a few more support issues etc which will add to soundquests costs slightly, but there's another way of looking at it.

Say soundquest sell 30 for $210, they've taken $6300, have a really small user base and have the vast majority of Kronos users slagging them off and many vowing never to touch a soundquest product again.

But, say they sold 30 times more at $30, now they have taken $27000 and have a user base of 900 instead of just 30. When they reach that point, users will be supporting other users on various forums hence support issues don't become all that much more.

While many will be happy buying the $210 version for $30 if it has 64 bit support, if they offered the choice, $30 or $50 I suspect many buyers will opt for the $50 version as its still the sort of price in most people's budget.

And when 900 people are talking on forums about using software that costs $30 (rather than 30 people talking about software that costs $299 or $210), chances are it won't be long before another 900 buy it.

I bought karma software in the Christmas sale, the full price is simply too much in my personal opinion, even more so when I ask if they intend to look at resizable windows and get told effectively that they are not.

Karma software sells for $169 but I bought it in their 25% off Christmas sale for around $127

Karma might be expensive but the software is very very good (ignoring the fixed window sizes) and it allows me to do something unique with my Kronos that I simply couldn't do without the software.

Not having soundquests editor working in a 64bit daw is annoying, but its not the end of the world, we can get by in other ways etc. Getting charged $41 more than the karma software currently costs (for the cheaper soundquest version or $130 more for soundquests top version) for the ability to do this in a 64bit daw is pure madness.
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Shakil
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Post by Shakil »

Even if there was a 64bit version of the editor and VSTi, people would still be complaining, as it would be just the same as the onboard editing, not like other VSTis and editors where you can edit programs in detail while the sequencer is running......
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jimknopf
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Post by jimknopf »

Just to put things straight, Shakil:
While the editor does not add too much to the Kronos UI, it still offers a limited additional usability beyond just using the Kronos, IF you can use it on your system.
Kronos 73 - Moog Voyager RME - Moog LP TE - Behringer Model D - Prophet 6 - Roland Jupiter Xm - Rhodes Stage 73 Mk I - Elektron Analog Rytm MkII - Roland TR-6s - Cubase 12 Pro + Groove Agent 5
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Post by miden »

Sharp wrote:I'm undoing this as I feel I'm wrong to close the thread. No rules have been broken.

lol... Just don't tell anyone I made a mistake. :wink:

Regards
Sharp.
And of course, no-one pressured you "behind the scenes" did they? :wink: I mean there was an hour and a half gap between closing and re-opening.....

I noticed you just closed another thread, that as far as I could see, did not break any rules either:
http://www.korgforums.com/forum/phpBB2/ ... highlight=

So I do not quite understand why this one could not be closed...anyway your decision I suppose. So while I disagree, I respect that and will move on.

Me? I am done with this now...
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BasariStudios
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Post by BasariStudios »

Dennis, James closed the other one cuz there is the same topic already going on....which is breaking the rules.
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