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As I mentioned in the topic I need to use Kronos as an arranger keyboard sometimes. I don't have a Kronos right now but I'm going to. Usually I gig with my band, but sometimes I have to gig single. When I am single I want to use it with live played chords. I've read op guide and parameter guide. The chords are mentioned, however it was really hard to understand without Kronos. Thus I need to ask you something, could Kronos plays chords as an arranger keys does? I don't need recognization of chords by Kronos.

Thanks.

Buğra

Bugra Ekuklu wrote:As I mentioned in the topic I need to use Kronos as an arranger keyboard sometimes. I don't have a Kronos right now but I'm going to. Usually I gig with my band, but sometimes I have to gig single. When I am single I want to use it with live played chords. I've read op guide and parameter guide. The chords are mentioned, however it was really hard to understand without Kronos. Thus I need to ask you something, could Kronos plays chords as an arranger keys does? I don't need recognization of chords by Kronos.

Thanks.

Buğra

I would suggest you do some searching for "arranger" on this forum. In general people hoping to make the Kronos act like one are disappointed. Of course, this depends on just what you want it to do. What do you mean when you say "play chords as an arranger does" exactly?

Thus I need to ask you something, could Kronos plays chords as an arranger keys does?

Hi Buğra

Welcome to the Korg Forums.

You can certainly use the Kronos "a bit like an arranger" by using the KARMA feature within programs and combis. Many of these will work straight away by recognising left hand chords like an arranger.
Bear in mind though that KARMA is a different way of life - it is unbelievably flexible (way way beyond anything an arranger will do) but it will NOT give you all the typical "arranger" functionality like intros/endings/fills etc...
BUT BUT BUT.... if you learn about the KARMA and how to use & manage its "live" parameters then you can get some amazing things happening in "real time".

I am lucky right now and have the best of both worlds with a Kronos and PA3X.

If you REALLY need full-on arranger functionality then the Kronos will not be suitable.
If you are not locked in to buying Kronos, I advise you to seriously think about the depth of "arranger" features you need.

I am using my PA3X of course for what it is designed for, however I also use my Kronos in a similar manner for several songs.

I hope this helps (and does not confuse!!)

Cheers

Pete

The Kronos appears to do much of what an arranger can do. With Karma a lot of it is possible. What is NOT possible is just doing something typically on the fly...I say typically because I mean what a person who is sitting at an arranger does is to find out what the crowd likes, pulls up a style, and does some popular song off of it.

Kronos has no styles prefabbed.

You would have to program your styles and "songs" (per se) in advance. To do rolls and fills you will have to program this in Karma and it still will not work like an arranger.

So yes, you could do solo performances. But it will require a lot of upfront work from you.

Bugra Ekuklu wrote:As I mentioned in the topic I need to use Kronos as an arranger keyboard sometimes. I don't have a Kronos right now but I'm going to. Usually I gig with my band, but sometimes I have to gig single. When I am single I want to use it with live played chords. I've read op guide and parameter guide. The chords are mentioned, however it was really hard to understand without Kronos. Thus I need to ask you something, could Kronos plays chords as an arranger keys does? I don't need recognization of chords by Kronos.

i will try to explain the differences between an arranger keyboard and the kronos.

Let me start by saying that kronos is not an arranger keyboard. So you don't have access to intro patterns, fill patterns and end patterns during your performance in the same way you do on an arranger keyboard.

What kronos can do is using combis, in combi mode you have access to 4 KARMA modules. Each module can recognize the chords that you play and generate a pattern in the key of your chord. Also it's possible to create chords based on the notes you play (like a guitar chord pattern). What you also can do is create a split-keyboard combi, where you play the chords with your left hand and the melody with your right hand, then you could setup KARMA to only respond to a specific keyboard zone you define. To change the behavior of the KARMA modules in realtime you have 8 scenes where you can program your KARMA variations of the patterns you choosed.

Another possibility is to use songs, in that case you can use midi files you prepared or songs you created on the kronos and play along those files. In those cases it's the same as playing a long a backing track. Also audio backing tracks (WAV files) can be used in song mode.

So you can use the kronos solo for playing songs, but not in the traditional Arranger keyboard way.

There are a lot of demos on my youtube channel where i show the above things i described. Just watch those to have an idea what's possible when playing live. Everything on my channel is done live and recorded directly from the kronos.

You can find my channel here: My YouTube Channel

With some work arounds and a lot of effort, there is a way to program the RPPR + KARMA to function like intro/fill in/variations/ending .. etc in SONG mode.

I have done it with M3 (which is similar to KRONOS) and it works close to an arranger, but you really have to spend a LOT of time for each style, which I think not really worth it. I would get an arranger module and program it to work with KRONOS.

Another feature of most arranger keyboards is that you can transition from one style to another without noticeable gaps. For example, you have a slow style as intro playing some strings on the upper part, speed it up, lock the tempo and transition in a rock/pop/whatever style with a lead sound in the upper part and do the fills and variations from there on.

The gapless style-switching is probably impossible, but as I don't own a kronos yet, please confirm it by actual owners

The Kronos is not suitable as an arranger keyboard imo, otherwise my dad would have one instead of his Ketron.

All the previous posts offer good advice and I can't add much to them,except to say what I'm planning to do for myself,sometime in the future.

I will be exploring the wonders of Karma etc,but also would like an arranger keyboard to compliment the Kronos,especially for initial composing with instant backing.
The current favorite is the Korg PA 600.

Had thought of the Korg MicroArranger,but the PA 600 has more functions available and of course full sized keys.
If key size won't bother you,the Micro is a worthy of consideration together with a Kronos,which could provide the best of both worlds etc.

There are other arranger keyboards obviously and could offer alternative choices.

As said,Karma will be the final "accompaniment" mode eventually,but for the interim,an arranger keyboard will be sought for my needs.

(1)

Another feature of most arranger keyboards is that you can transition from one style to another without noticeable gaps. For example, you have a slow style as intro playing some strings on the upper part, speed it up, lock the tempo and transition in a rock/pop/whatever style with a lead sound in the upper part and do the fills and variations from there on.

(2)

With some work arounds and a lot of effort, there is a way to program the RPPR + KARMA to function like intro/fill in/variations/ending .. etc in SONG mode.

(3)

I have done it with M3 (which is similar to KRONOS) and it works close to an arranger, but you really have to spend a LOT of time for each style, which I think not really worth it. I would get an arranger module and program it to work with KRONOS.

(4)

Let me start by saying that kronos is not an arranger keyboard. So you don't have access to intro patterns, fill patterns and end patterns during your performance in the same way you do on an arranger keyboard.

(5)

What kronos can do is using combis, in combi mode you have access to 4 KARMA modules. Each module can recognize the chords that you play and generate a pattern in the key of your chord. Also it's possible to create chords based on the notes you play (like a guitar chord pattern). What you also can do is create a split-keyboard combi, where you play the chords with your left hand and the melody with your right hand, then you could setup KARMA to only respond to a specific keyboard zone you define. To change the behavior of the KARMA modules in realtime you have 8 scenes where you can program your KARMA variations of the patterns you choosed.

Firstly, I appreciate you all about replying my question; and excuse me I forgot to meet myself to you. There are quiet clear differences between arrangers and workstations and I had known it. But the point is, there is a thing named KARMA and it is really hard to understand without a Kronos (even with manuals). Actually, my aim was what KARMA can do and can't do.[5]

You had all my questions answered, I'm going to use Kronos as workstation generally (and I was)[4], but just had wondered what it can do besides workstation job. After your comments, I've realised you can use Kronos as an arranger [2] but you have to spend so much time to have exactly what you want[3]. Moreover, I don't need arranger keyboard things like intros, outros etc. [1]. I'm going to use it with back tracks like Rudess does. So I think it can meet my needs.

Buğra

One thing I found when using the Kronos as an arranger is that there is quite a delay in Karma recognising the chord being played as opposed to an arranger which picks up the chord almost immediately. OK for playing slow stuff but not for anything up tempo.

Bryan

Cpilot wrote:One thing I found when using the Kronos as an arranger is that there is quite a delay in Karma recognising the chord being played as opposed to an arranger which picks up the chord almost immediately. OK for playing slow stuff but not for anything up tempo.

Bryan

You can change that on the karma trigger page, there you can change the quantise value and the note trigger per module

QuiRobinez wrote:

Cpilot wrote:One thing I found when using the Kronos as an arranger is that there is quite a delay in Karma recognising the chord being played as opposed to an arranger which picks up the chord almost immediately. OK for playing slow stuff but not for anything up tempo.

Bryan

You can change that on the karma trigger page, there you can change the quantise value and the note trigger per module

I guess it is about waiting the end of the beat. Does the chord change with the end of the beat or it always delay same after you pressed intended chord?

In fact, you can use your Kronos as a kind of arranger keyboard, as far as the Karma engine allows you to play ready made patterns (bass, drums, guitars, keyboards, brass, chords, winds, etc...).

So if you want really good original arrangements, your Kronos will give you a far more realistic result than any arranger= but you have to program your own combis, with scenes variations... that's not as easy as an arranger accomp section!!

In the factory combi presets, there are "hidden" very well known songs or (Toto's Africa, U2's hits, etc...)... That gives you some examples of the "hits" you can play on a Kronos!

Hi again Bugra

As I mentioned in my earlier response, I have both PA3X and Kronos
For years, 95% of my keyboard playing has required arranger keyboards and I have progressed through many Yamahas, Rolands and now the best - Korg.

Recently a great Forum colleague (Rob Sherratt) ask me a leading question.
Rob's question was this:
He asked me "...if you were in financial difficulties and HAD to sell one of your keyboards, which one would you keep?...."
I answered that quite easily - Kronos. The stange thing is that I previously owned the M3 (only bought my Kronos a few weeks ago) and I would have answered Rob differently a few weeks ago - definitely keeping the PA3X - the M3 was awesome but i find the Kronos much more "performance friendly" - e.g. with its set list feature etc...

If I was in that position and forced to sell one, although I would miss the PA3X, I could still use the Kronos for backing my band as well as have all the outstanding sounds and features of this amazing workstation. I realise that if left with Kronos I would have to put in some time and effort to tweak the KARMA to satisfy the band and our numbers.

I am currently preparing a number of KARMA "backings" to suit some of our songs previously using the PA3X.

Don't get me wrong - PA3X is awesome - vocal harmoniser alone is hard to beat - has great great sounds and fabulous styles.

Anyhow, for what it may be worth, thought I would respond again.

All the best with your decisions

Pete