kronos with ableton live via usb desperately need help

micksmuse · Post by **micksmuse** » Thu Jun 27, 2013 5:10 am

so i have a new kronos and want to use it with ableton as my keyboard and as a vst (with the kronos editing software that they finally released.) i have drivers installed and everything is working fine in stand alone with editor. ableton recognizes the kronos vst plug in and i can pull it up on an audio track but that is where i hit a brick wall. i see note info coming into track meter on the vst mod on the track but not on the track volume meter like it usually is on an armed track
i have kronos set to auto for midi. and i have tried local both on and off on kronos.
i had found a link to a forum post (not sure if on ableton or somewhere elese) when i was researching the kronos that had a walk through on what settings to use on the kronos & ableton so they could talk to each other and use the kronos as a vst sound source but have searched for days for the link and can't find it again.
if there is anyone out there using kronos with ableton via usb connection
please i really could use some help. i would even pay for some help via phone on getting this working.

any help would be greatly appreciated. thanks

SanderXpander · Post by **SanderXpander** » Thu Jun 27, 2013 5:39 am

You need to select the Kronos as your soundcard. If you have a different soundcard that you want to use instead you'll need to hook up the Kronos to that with regular audio cables.

micksmuse · Post by **micksmuse** » Thu Jun 27, 2013 5:09 pm

hi, thanks for responding. when i go into ableton there is no choice on it for the kronos as the audio soundcard. all i see are my saffire interface and a zoom g3x stompbox that i use that has an interface in it.
i have kronos midi driver installed which works with the kronos editor but i noticed it is a midi driver and according to the tech guy at korg the kronos uses whatever audio driver you have with your windows 8 computer (which i assumed was the driver i had with the focusrite/saffire which is a asao driver that focusrite recommended.

all the documentation and videos state that the usb a/b cord can go into computer directly and transmit midi and audio (2 channels of audio). so is what you are saying that it states that but in real life it just doesn't work?
i have the editor vst plug-in installed and ableton recognizes it and once again it states that if you turn local off on the kronos you should be able to use the kronos as a vst and get the audio in via usb.
so i am guessing you have tried this and it does not work.
if in fact the usb midi/audio connection can't be done i guess not much i can do about it other than a work around. sadly i am not a midi guru and my head is spinning.
couple questions since you maybe using the kronos.
if i have the keyboard on kronos being recognized with ableton and i can record midi data to a armed midi track on ableton how would i get the audio onto another track using the sound from the kronos?
i assume i would have to arm another audio track and have the midi track going into that track but how would i get the audio from the kronos onto that track? sorry if this is a naive question but am a newbee.

SanderXpander · Post by **SanderXpander** » Thu Jun 27, 2013 5:14 pm

In order to use USB audio from the Kronos you have to select it as your soundcard. On Windows, this means using WDM or MME drivers, or installing ASIO4ALL if you want to use it with ASIO drivers. The Kronos does not come bundled with audio drivers. If you want to use your Saffire as soundcard, simply use audio cables to hook up the Kronos to it. Then make an audio track in Ableton, select the correct inputs on your Saffire, and enable input monitoring.

micksmuse · Post by **micksmuse** » Thu Jun 27, 2013 5:27 pm

hi, so if i chose mme or insall the asio4all driver the kronos would show up as a choice for interface. but then i assume i would have to monitor everything though the kronos?
there is no way to monitor through saffire as i guess you can't have two interfaces at once.
i had read on a forum that the asio4all driver with kronos has major latency issues. have you used that?

and if i decide just to go with the saffire and route audio to that from kronos and into ableton to record on another track am i better going spdif from kronos to saffire that using the line outs/in?
will i have a latency issue on either choice?

i really would like to use the vst plug-in function if it works. can that be accomplished with the 2 audio drivers you suggested. thanks. mick

SanderXpander · Post by **SanderXpander** » Thu Jun 27, 2013 5:35 pm

You can only use one interface at a time, correct. ASIO4ALL works fine in my experience but yes, you would have to monitor everything to the Kronos. If you would like to use your Saffire instead, a digital connection would theoretically give you the best sound quality. However, you would have to keep your projects to 48KHz (or mix samplerates) because that is the fixed samplerate of the Kronos. You may find there's very little to no difference in sound quality if you hook up with regular audio cables. This is ultimately the correct way to use VST plugin; one midi track and one incoming audio track. Some DAWs allow you to combine these into one track. Live doesn't.

Good luck!

Lou · Post by **Lou** » Thu Jun 27, 2013 6:04 pm

I use Kronos spdif to an Ensemble on a Mac. (Audio cables work just as well) On the Kronos track I have inserted an External Instrument with Kronos selected and the the Ensemble for the audio. Never had any issues and works like a charm. This allows recording midi while monitoring the K. In Live Preferences select your audio interface and Kronos for for your midi. Sorry I can't be of any help if you are using Kronos USB audio.

micksmuse · Post by **micksmuse** » Thu Jun 27, 2013 6:04 pm

can i bother you with one more back and forth?

so if i download the asio4all and that works fine i should be able to use the kronos as the interface at least when i am recording keyboard parts and then i can always switch back to the saffire for vocals etc. and would the fact that i have two asio drivers installed confuse ableton when i switch back and forth from the kronos to saffire for monitoring purposes (obviously re-selecting either one on my preferences).
if i used the kronos as the interface would i then be able to just have the one track with midi info on it and have the kronos as my sound engine?
(i like that since i am not a keyboard wiz and i have to really tweak the parts and do it in very small sections and would save a lot of time deleting the audio track every time i have to tweak the midi stuff).
have you ever used the kronos as an interface and used the editor vst plug-in? thanks again. mick

SanderXpander · Post by **SanderXpander** » Thu Jun 27, 2013 7:25 pm

That would work exactly as you said but there is really no need as long as you have plenty of inputs free on your Saffire. The midi editing isn't affected in any way by hooking up the saffire. Just enable input monitoring on your audio track and you can keep everything as midi until you're ready to record it as audio.

micksmuse · Post by **micksmuse** » Thu Jun 27, 2013 7:54 pm

so then using the saffire as my interface and recording the track in midi while monitoring the sound of the patch on the kronos with input monitored on the audio track. but wouldn't i have to arm the audio track and then when i record the midi the audio track would record as well so the 50 times i have to go back and re-record due to my dismal playing ability i would have to trash both tracks and start over i assume or i could just do record/destroy to the audio track each time.
if i am understanding you correctly i would have to have two tracks going at all times on ableton one for midi & one for audio or.

sorry if this sounds confusing but my procedure is i have a couple backing tracks on ableton and some vocals and then i build my keyboard parts a few measures at a time and do cuting and pasting to other verses & chorous's
but i end up re-recording the keyboard sections tons of times to correct errors etc.

so i can be doing this as only a midi recorded track and then when i get a good take of it i guess i could play it with record on the audio keyboard track and have the midi hooked to that audio track with the kronos sound coming on it.

that is the way i understand what you are saying. mick

SanderXpander · Post by **SanderXpander** » Thu Jun 27, 2013 8:41 pm

What? No you can record just midi in Ableton just fine. You don't arm the audio track until you want to you record it, you just turn on input monitoring. Edit and rerecord your midi as often as you want. At this point the audio track with input monitoring is just there so you can hear the Kronos. Once you're happy with the parts, record them to audio tracks as needed.

micksmuse · Post by **micksmuse** » Fri Jun 28, 2013 1:00 am

cool, thanks so much for taking the time to answer my questions. you saved me much time.

last infantile question: so then if i wanted to repeat the procedure in several other tracks with other voices on the kronos i would either have to record the audio after i get the midi track where i am happy with it for each voice.
and then start again.

because if i wanted five separate midi tracks of different voices, like strings, horns, keys and bass and i want to use only the voices on the kronos.
i would have to record them in on separate passes if i only had two/stereo in's on my saffire for audio.
short of using a larger focusrite with more inputs. i believe the kronos has the ability to route four different voices to four audio outs.
and if i did use the multiple outs so i could monitor more than one voice in playback (if i haven't recorded the audio track yet does that have to be set up in a set list or something so it can all be routed correctly?
thanks. mick

SanderXpander · Post by **SanderXpander** » Fri Jun 28, 2013 5:42 am

You could easily play five midi tracks at the same time to the Kronos using combi or sequence mode. But yes, you will have to record the audio in separate passes to separate ttacks.

Lou · Post by **Lou** » Fri Jun 28, 2013 11:49 am

This may help some.. http://karma-lab.wikidot.com/korg-m3:re ... leton-live

micksmuse · Post by **micksmuse** » Sat Jun 29, 2013 8:39 pm

if you are still out there. one more question if i may.
i managed to get the single tracks armed, recorded and played back individually.

now i want to do this on multiple tracks and with a number of different voices/programs playing at once before i record the audio tracks so i can get a listen to what i have done so far.

as i understood it i could do this with a sequence set up with different voices/programs on different tracks in the sequence mode on kronos.
say i have a organ on track 1 and routed on midi channel 1
and some strings on track 2 routed on midi channel 2
i have that done but when i play back my recorded midi tracks on ableton and have one on midi 1 and one on midi 2 i get no monitoring????