How to learn to play like a guitarist?

cobi · Post by **cobi** » Fri Jul 26, 2013 11:24 am

After some non musical weeks (a pile of other work) I have time again for my K. Since I would like to record some guitar solos I tried the different guitar patches on the Kronos.
Unfortunately I found that it's not enough to press the right keys to sound like David Gilmour. A big part of the guitar sound obviously comes from the technique how the notes, bendings etc. are played.

I wonder how this can be learned by a keyboardist. How did you do it? Are there maybe some tutorials on the internet?

Thanks in advance for your help.

cobi

CTravaglini · Post by **CTravaglini** » Fri Jul 26, 2013 12:04 pm

i can not speak on behalf of keyboardists who can play like guitarists, but i can speak as a guitarist myself

one thing is that a guitar being tuned basically all in 4ths means that notes overlap very frequently, and that makes for some very simple conventional guar pentatonic licks, that might seam very odd on a keyboard!

when you learn guitar, you're almost going to inevitably begin soling with the straight blues scale, and you'll be taught it all over the neck. so a lot of more simplistic rock guitar playing stems from those patterns we learn. then later in life, after we've already swooned our girl, and have settled down, we begin listening to (dare i say it) jazz records, and decide to move away from the most basic pentatonic/blues scale patterns and try and sound (ironically) more like a keyboard player

So what does all that mean? well, listen to any good blues/rock player, and you'll notice a few clichés. Bending is an ABSOLUTE must. and one thing keyboard players often forget is to bend a note, and stay there for a while. experiment with it, bring it back and forth. thats something very natural to a guitar.

also, make more use of 4ths during your soloing. especially from the 5th to the root, or 7th to the 3rd. again, something that feels very natural to a guitar, not so much to a keyboard

Finally, and this is probably the most important. try to play some of your favourite guitar solos. if theres any you know off by heart, just sit and try to play through them on a good guitar patch, and let the mistakes you make be the best guide as to what to do

obviously there will be certain inflections you'll never be able to replicate without a dedicated guitar plugin, but for the most part, you should be able to capture the essence of a guitar solo just through listening, and a little practice

Bertotti · Post by **Bertotti** » Fri Jul 26, 2013 12:14 pm

FWIW a lot of tone on a guitar is in the fingers, you can give the same guitar to a dozen different players and have them play the same lick and each and everyone will sound different. Pick a well know guitarist and hand him ten different guitars and he can still sound like himself.

edited to correct spelling.

DennyC · Post by **DennyC** » Fri Jul 26, 2013 1:03 pm

CTravaglini wrote:i can not speak on behalf of keyboardists who can play like guitarists, but i can speak as a guitarist myself

one thing is that a guitar being tuned basically all in 4ths means that notes overlap very frequently, and that makes for some very simple conventional guar pentatonic licks, that might seam very odd on a keyboard!

when you learn guitar, you're almost going to inevitably begin soling with the straight blues scale, and you'll be taught it all over the neck. so a lot of more simplistic rock guitar playing stems from those patterns we learn. then later in life, after we've already swooned our girl, and have settled down, we begin listening to (dare i say it) jazz records, and decide to move away from the most basic pentatonic/blues scale patterns and try and sound (ironically) more like a keyboard player

So what does all that mean? well, listen to any good blues/rock player, and you'll notice a few clichés. Bending is an ABSOLUTE must. and one thing keyboard players often forget is to bend a note, and stay there for a while. experiment with it, bring it back and forth. thats something very natural to a guitar.

also, make more use of 4ths during your soloing. especially from the 5th to the root, or 7th to the 3rd. again, something that feels very natural to a guitar, not so much to a keyboard

Finally, and this is probably the most important. try to play some of your favourite guitar solos. if theres any you know off by heart, just sit and try to play through them on a good guitar patch, and let the mistakes you make be the best guide as to what to do

obviously there will be certain inflections you'll never be able to replicate without a dedicated guitar plugin, but for the most part, you should be able to capture the essence of a guitar solo just through listening, and a little practice

Excellent piece. However, these are secrets that you are not supposed to give away so easily. javascript:emoticon(':)')

DennyC · Post by **DennyC** » Fri Jul 26, 2013 1:09 pm

Bertotti wrote:FWIW a lot of one on a guitar is in the fingers, you can give the same guitar to a do en different players and have them play the same lick and each and everyone will sound different. Pick a well know guitarist and hand him ten different guitars and he can still sound like himself.

This is a very astute observation. You guys are giving away a lot of 'secrets'
today. Our discussions should be confined to 'how to get from point a to point b on the Kronos'...and software and programming stuff. Technique is over the top.

Gentlemen and ladies, this is obviously the best Korg forum platform of all time!!!

Chriskk · Post by **Chriskk** » Fri Jul 26, 2013 7:45 pm

Nothing else sound cheesier than a synth electric guitar. Guitar playing, especially electric guitar playing, involves so many nuances that it's impossible to emulate on keys. Let keys be keys.

Bertotti · Post by **Bertotti** » Fri Jul 26, 2013 9:34 pm

What he said!

BobTheDog · Post by **BobTheDog** » Fri Jul 26, 2013 10:07 pm

Gilmour for instance is rather good at bending strings and vibrato, often separate strings will have different bends and vibrato at the same time.

This is pretty hard to do from a keyboard.

Using a midi guitar converter say with a combi of 6 patches allows you to at least get the individual bends/vibrato but even so you still loose all the nuances of how the string is fretted, plucked, muted etc.

Overall i think it's pretty hard to get a synth to sound like a guitar

Bald Eagle · Post by **Bald Eagle** » Fri Jul 26, 2013 10:25 pm

I've said this before. I think with a good patch and playing technique you can get somewhat convincing leads but not so much with chords.

PianoManChuck · Post by **PianoManChuck** » Sat Jul 27, 2013 12:02 am

The keyboard itself (with up to 88 keys, w/ velocity, aftertouch, sustain and/or expression pedal, modulation/pitch/bender and any other controls) can do a great job of giving you control of just about any patch you choose, but it will NOT be able to reproduce all the nuances and uniqueness of that instrument.

Mouth/breath control for wind instruments can take years to master, and cannot be duplicated with 88 switches (keys) no matter how many controls you offer over those switches (keys).

All of the nuances and controls that are used by a violinist in mastering not only the strings control with one hand, but the complex movements of the bow across those strings with the other hand.

Guitarists also master 3 different things: Note control with one hand, how those notes are played with the other hand (ie: strummed, plucked, with or without a pick, maybe they're using coin as a pick), and how best to combine those two hands to produce the desired result.

Even instruments that have keyboards on them cannot be duplicated completely on a digital keyboard. Ie: An accordion player determines how much air is being moved at what velocity in order to produce their desired effect. A melodica player can make that simple instrument very expressive using breath and tongue control.

Every instrument is unique and cannot be fully reproduced using a digital keyboard. You can reproduce the notes, but never the full expressiveness of playing the actual physical instrument.

For this reason, ZZ TOP always used the physical instrument they wanted for whatever song called for that instrument. If they didn't know how to play that instrument, they'd learn it so that they could play it with the exact expression they intended.

rrricky rrrecordo · Post by **rrricky rrrecordo** » Sat Jul 27, 2013 12:13 am

Bald Eagle wrote:I've said this before. I think with a good patch and playing technique you can get somewhat convincing leads but not so much with chords.

Chords: Choose a decent guitar patch and "strum" the open strings EADGBE and you're already in the ballpark. We must think guitaristically - idiomatically. I find that with "proper" guitar voicings, chords played on a keyboard can sound real enough if you "strum" the keys or "pick" them idiomatically.

Solos: For best results I think both idiomatically and idiotically. Finesse the whammy wheel/joystick - set pitch bend to one semitone (or a semitone up and fifth/octave below... experiment) and don't nail it to the wall every time. Approach some bends from beneath (whammy down before playing the note then up to pitch). Lots of wee little whammy wheel vibrato, just listen to some BB King (substitute your own fave geetar player of course) and try to cop his vibe.

Surprise yourself, I'll betcha will

Bald Eagle · Post by **Bald Eagle** » Sat Jul 27, 2013 9:25 am

rrricky rrrecordo wrote: Solos: For best results I think both idiomatically and idiotically. Finesse the whammy wheel/joystick - set pitch bend to one semitone (or a semitone up and fifth/octave below... experiment) and don't nail it to the wall every time. Approach some bends from beneath (whammy down before playing the note then up to pitch). Lots of wee little whammy wheel vibrato, just listen to some BB King (substitute your own fave geetar player of course) and try to cop his vibe.

Surprise yourself, I'll betcha will

I have already surprised myself ... I already killed one joystick doing all of this but the results are fantastic I love it

runningman67 · Post by **runningman67** » Sat Jul 27, 2013 10:18 am

I think you have to be selective with what you play and how you play and lots and lots of practice.

I'm not saying this is perfect by any stretch, but I had fun wit this when I'd just bought my Kronos.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JAYxY-AYW_A

DennyC · Post by **DennyC** » Sat Jul 27, 2013 1:26 pm

Chriskk wrote:Nothing else sound cheesier than a synth electric guitar. Guitar playing, especially electric guitar playing, involves so many nuances that it's impossible to emulate on keys. Let keys be keys.

Now that's more like it!

DennyC · Post by **DennyC** » Sat Jul 27, 2013 1:27 pm

rrricky rrrecordo wrote:
Bald Eagle wrote:I've said this before. I think with a good patch and playing technique you can get somewhat convincing leads but not so much with chords.
Chords: Choose a decent guitar patch and "strum" the open strings EADGBE and you're already in the ballpark. We must think guitaristically - idiomatically. I find that with "proper" guitar voicings, chords played on a keyboard can sound real enough if you "strum" the keys or "pick" them idiomatically.

Solos: For best results I think both idiomatically and idiotically. Finesse the whammy wheel/joystick - set pitch bend to one semitone (or a semitone up and fifth/octave below... experiment) and don't nail it to the wall every time. Approach some bends from beneath (whammy down before playing the note then up to pitch). Lots of wee little whammy wheel vibrato, just listen to some BB King (substitute your own fave geetar player of course) and try to cop his vibe.

Surprise yourself, I'll betcha will

Naughty, naughty...keep it tight to the vest.