Korg Forums

nitecrawler wrote:The only roland gear I retained is an old D110 and my 88 key A90. The A90ex has been a great piano thru the years and still works well as a midi controller with four midi outs that are controlled thru the device. Unfortunately, nothing they have produced in the last 10 to 15 years really clicked with me. I think they lost their innovative direction. Here's hoping they resolve their financial issues. Competition is good for the industry.

Really? I disagree totally, the V-Synth is by far the mot interesting synth released the last 10-15 years.

The V-Synth is the LAST interesting synth Roland ever made. JP-80? No, don't make me laugh.

Hugo wrote:

nitecrawler wrote:The only roland gear I retained is an old D110 and my 88 key A90. The A90ex has been a great piano thru the years and still works well as a midi controller with four midi outs that are controlled thru the device. Unfortunately, nothing they have produced in the last 10 to 15 years really clicked with me. I think they lost their innovative direction. Here's hoping they resolve their financial issues. Competition is good for the industry.

Really? I disagree totally, the V-Synth is by far the mot interesting synth released the last 10-15 years.

Not for me. I didn't find it interesting at all. Was very curious about the V-piano, but could not find it locally available to play and would not consider paying that amount of money with no "hands on" time with it first. Different horses for courses.

nitecrawler wrote:

Hugo wrote:

nitecrawler wrote:The only roland gear I retained is an old D110 and my 88 key A90. The A90ex has been a great piano thru the years and still works well as a midi controller with four midi outs that are controlled thru the device. Unfortunately, nothing they have produced in the last 10 to 15 years really clicked with me. I think they lost their innovative direction. Here's hoping they resolve their financial issues. Competition is good for the industry.

Really? I disagree totally, the V-Synth is by far the mot interesting synth released the last 10-15 years.

Not for me. I didn't find it interesting at all. Was very curious about the V-piano, but could not find it locally available to play and would not consider paying that amount of money with no "hands on" time with it first. Different horses for courses.

Fair enough. If you're into pianos and more conventional stuff, I can see your point. If we're talking about innovative synthesis and interesting new concepts, the V-Synth rules.

Asena wrote:JOE, theis economical situation infects all the BRAND , not only keyboards or Drums or whatsoever.

Don't understand how you get that- I took my info right off the announcement.

price=Buyer

High price = Not much buyer.

Really? Porsche doesn't seem to think so. Nor does Mercedes, Audi, SIG-Sauer, Rolex, et al: they sell pretty much everything they make, and all are in a higher price bracket than their competitors.

Price has little to do with sales volume. Quality of product does. The Kronos sells well because it offers a whole package. No one is going to say they're inexpensive, but they offer a lot, so they still sell well.

..Joe

Sharp wrote:I hope Roland pull through this change and get back on track with a more deficient manufacturing facility.

I'd rather their gear didn't get any worse (I'm presuming "deficient" is an unfortunate typo)

Sad news, but maybe it only affects the European division? But in all honesty, surely they only have their R&D division to blame for recent lack lustre products.

Roland occasionally have great ideas but then fall at the final hurdle.The Fantom G series could have been superb, but what happened to ARX - 3 cards then nothing. The aliasing on the Gaia oscillators (for me) made it almost unusable, and then relying on the Jupiter heritage for the 80/50.

I want to love Roland, but I can't. If they go under, I won't miss them - Harsh maybe, but that's life - Great companies come and go.

JOE, i undarstad you 100% what i mean is I do not care if my pa3x can be higher price if it can offer more, And if i can use it 3 more years, So we are on the same way there.

Joe Gerardi wrote:

Asena wrote:JOE, theis economical situation infects all the BRAND , not only keyboards or Drums or whatsoever.

Don't understand how you get that- I took my info right off the announcement.

price=Buyer

High price = Not much buyer.

Really? Porsche doesn't seem to think so. Nor does Mercedes, Audi, SIG-Sauer, Rolex, et al: they sell pretty much everything they make, and all are in a higher price bracket than their competitors.

Price has little to do with sales volume. Quality of product does. The Kronos sells well because it offers a whole package. No one is going to say they're inexpensive, but they offer a lot, so they still sell well.

..Joe

Yes but the kronos does more then the rolex. You are correct about the kronos but those other things are just overpriced objects that other similar things do just as well. I feel like the "suave" route is a hoax, the production cost can't be that much higher to justify the cost difference. People with excess money in their budget being tricked to let go of it. Now thats luxury.

Joe Gerardi wrote:
Really? Porsche doesn't seem to think so. Nor does Mercedes, Audi, SIG-Sauer, Rolex, et al: they sell pretty much everything they make, and all are in a higher price bracket than their competitors.

Price has little to do with sales volume. Quality of product does. The Kronos sells well because it offers a whole package. No one is going to say they're inexpensive, but they offer a lot, so they still sell well.

..Joe

Hi Joe, I'm not sure if I find this convincing at all. Comparing Luxury Cars and items that appeal to the general public is nothing like an expensive musical instruments that's geared specifically towards a very small group of people.

In this case, Price has everything to do with Sales volume. I know at least 20 people in real life (in Los angeles) who own Kronos. I bought a Kronos just because the price was awfully low compared to nonsense $5000-$8000 workstations Korg's been trying to sell before. I only use my Kronos as a sound Module. I know at least of 5 other users who use their Kronos exactly the same way. I've bought another 2 for two churches that I do music arrangements for and they didn't mind the price tag at all. On the other hand, none of these people would've bought an $8000 workstation just to sit around ....

They close Roland Europe?

It could well be that Roland had better staff here, than the silly present Roland Japan management, really responsible for incredibly bad development strategies of music instruments, especially synths/keyboards.

These Japanese Roland wannabe synth managers should rather fire themselves (for neither having any clue about their customer wishes and support, nor about well thought instrument design), before closing anything else!

Assyrianpianist wrote:
Hi Joe, I'm not sure if I find this convincing at all. Comparing Luxury Cars and items that appeal to the general public is nothing like an expensive musical instruments that's geared specifically towards a very small group of people.

In this case, Price has everything to do with Sales volume. I know at least 20 people in real life (in Los angeles) who own Kronos. I bought a Kronos just because the price was awfully low compared to nonsense $5000-$8000 workstations Korg's been trying to sell before. I only use my Kronos as a sound Module. I know at least of 5 other users who use their Kronos exactly the same way. I've bought another 2 for two churches that I do music arrangements for and they didn't mind the price tag at all. On the other hand, none of these people would've bought an $8000 workstation just to sit around ....

My point being that you can buy a car that gives you perfectly bland transportation for 15 grand (Kia) or you can spend a lot more to get performance. Seems there's no lack of people that are willing to pay for that performance, else they wouldn't sell, and the company go out of business. Therefore, the price means little when it comes to ROI if the quality is there. The Kronos is actually quite a high-priced synth compared to the Casio XW-P1, yet it seems to be selling fine. Using your theory, everyone would be buying the Casio because it's 500 bucks.

Taking my same analogy out further, the Porsche was a specific target in terms of price. Were I to have used the Ferrari 458, or McLaren MP4-12C, then that would be more in line with your comparison: How many $8,000.00 synths were in the marketplace 5 years ago? That's why I didn't choose a $250,000 car. But make something in the 3.5-4.5K range, (which is a lot of money in synth terms) and make it a decent, feature-rich product, and people will come to your door and spend their money. Make a $2000 product that falls on its ass in terms of features, and people are going to opt to spend a little more and get what they want.

As to using the Kronos as a sound module, well, I can't speak to the limited ability of players' capabilities: I play mine. A LOT. Currently I'm working on Le Cygne to accompany the Cellist from my string quartet (I also play 1st violin in a semi-pro String Quartet) for a Thanksgiving performance we're doing. The piano sound and the 88-keys are working just fine in terms of a musical instrument.

..Joe

Joe Gerardi wrote:

Assyrianpianist wrote:
Hi Joe, I'm not sure if I find this convincing at all. Comparing Luxury Cars and items that appeal to the general public is nothing like an expensive musical instruments that's geared specifically towards a very small group of people.

In this case, Price has everything to do with Sales volume. I know at least 20 people in real life (in Los angeles) who own Kronos. I bought a Kronos just because the price was awfully low compared to nonsense $5000-$8000 workstations Korg's been trying to sell before. I only use my Kronos as a sound Module. I know at least of 5 other users who use their Kronos exactly the same way. I've bought another 2 for two churches that I do music arrangements for and they didn't mind the price tag at all. On the other hand, none of these people would've bought an $8000 workstation just to sit around ....

My point being that you can buy a car that gives you perfectly bland transportation for 15 grand (Kia) or you can spend a lot more to get performance. Seems there's no lack of people that are willing to pay for that performance, else they wouldn't sell, and the company go out of business. Therefore, the price means little when it comes to ROI if the quality is there. The Kronos is actually quite a high-priced synth compared to the Casio XW-P1, yet it seems to be selling fine. Using your theory, everyone would be buying the Casio because it's 500 bucks.

Taking my same analogy out further, the Porsche was a specific target in terms of price. Were I to have used the Ferrari 458, or McLaren MP4-12C, then that would be more in line with your comparison: How many $8,000.00 synths were in the marketplace 5 years ago? That's why I didn't choose a $250,000 car. But make something in the 3.5-4.5K range, (which is a lot of money in synth terms) and make it a decent, feature-rich product, and people will come to your door and spend their money. Make a $2000 product that falls on its ass in terms of features, and people are going to opt to spend a little more and get what they want.

As to using the Kronos as a sound module, well, I can't speak to the limited ability of players' capabilities: I play mine. A LOT. Currently I'm working on Le Cygne to accompany the Cellist from my string quartet (I also play 1st violin in a semi-pro String Quartet) for a Thanksgiving performance we're doing. The piano sound and the 88-keys are working just fine in terms of a musical instrument.

..Joe

oh shoot. I just remembered you from another thread. My bad..you're right. You're the best. Let's just leave it at that.

Were talking about expensive cars that dont get you from point a to point b more effectively. The kronos on the other hand will get just about anyone to where they are "going" more effectively then the casio.

The Porsche is just an expensive car, like the rolex (tells me the time just as good as my cell), doesn't get you anywhere any better.

A porsche is not just an expensive car, you obviously don't understand cars if you think that. Or watches by the sound of it!

First of all, a Porsche is no synth or clock at all, and most musicians are very down to earth in their preferences, when it comes to everyday use of well working gear.

There may be casual expensive exceptions from this rule, like the Failight or Oasys in their time. But musicians certainly don't like things like a nver properly updated halfbaked OS in a synth, or lots of other funny technical design decisions. Roland has a great tradition, and I wish them a comeback with a better management and a better connection to users to get there. But they are in trouble for mainly self made, quite well known reasons.