Korg Forums

double post

ed_f wrote:

EJ2 wrote:

Sweat wrote:ed, this appears to provide a terrific boost to workflow. Your work is really appreciated. I am sure many of us are watching this thread in great anticipation, but perhaps avoiding any comments to pressure knowing if/when you might make it available. Regardless, thanks for videos. It is great to see the possibilities with the software. Perhaps a pro version could even be a full blown Combi editor? wow.

I must concur. I'd say, just looking at the videos, "combi editor" functions seem to be in place. On that last comment, will your current intended version allow assignment of GE parameters (switches, sliders, drum maps etc.)?

By the looks of it, your software will be better than Korg's Kronos editor.

Best wishes for your completion. I'm fully aware that good things take time.

Thanks for the kind words. Things are getting close. But, giving a date is sure to cause nothing but grief.
I am pretty convinced that the best way to go on this will be two versions.
Basic version will allow editing of everything on the "basic" tabs of programs, combis etc. A pro version would allow
access to most or all of the parameters available in a pcg file.

Specifically to your list. I do have a working version that allows me to change most of the KARMA parameters - I find that really useful in my work flow. The question becomes how many would find it useful and which parameters do people find they want to sit at their computer and edit and which do you want to be at your KRONOS tweaking.

That's great. Definitely an asset in combi building, as Karma Lab's videos on combi building for the M3 prove using the M3 Editor.

ed_f wrote:

EJ2 wrote:

Sweat wrote:ed, this appears to provide a terrific boost to workflow. Your work is really appreciated. I am sure many of us are watching this thread in great anticipation, but perhaps avoiding any comments to pressure knowing if/when you might make it available. Regardless, thanks for videos. It is great to see the possibilities with the software. Perhaps a pro version could even be a full blown Combi editor? wow.

I must concur. I'd say, just looking at the videos, "combi editor" functions seem to be in place. On that last comment, will your current intended version allow assignment of GE parameters (switches, sliders, drum maps etc.)?

By the looks of it, your software will be better than Korg's Kronos editor.

Best wishes for your completion. I'm fully aware that good things take time.

Thanks for the kind words. Things are getting close. But, giving a date is sure to cause nothing but grief.
I am pretty convinced that the best way to go on this will be two versions.
Basic version will allow editing of everything on the "basic" tabs of programs, combis etc. A pro version would allow
access to most or all of the parameters available in a pcg file.

Specifically to your list. I do have a working version that allows me to change most of the KARMA parameters - I find that really useful in my work flow. The question becomes how many would find it useful and which parameters do people find they want to sit at their computer and edit and which do you want to be at your KRONOS tweaking.

That's great. Definitely an asset in combi building, as Karma Lab's videos on combi building for the M3 prove using the M3 Editor.

ahutnick wrote:Being able to control Karma parameters would be great. I really like the idea of a tablet version especially for the pro version!

I agree having a lot of the KARMA parameters available at the same time on a big screen is really handy.

Maybe I'm wrong but as far as I can see this is NOT a real time editor but a PCG editor.
So if I'm right then I can't find very useful to have the Karma parameters. I think when you try to adjust Karma you want to see the real time result. The only scenario where I find this handy is when you want to copy Karma parts from a combi to another one.

On the other hand this software looks VERY useful and I'm excited to see it.

andreidelait wrote:Maybe I'm wrong but as far as I can see this is NOT a real time editor but a PCG editor.
So if I'm right then I can't find very useful to have the Karma parameters. I think when you try to adjust Karma you want to see the real time result. The only scenario where I find this handy is when you want to copy Karma parts from a combi to another one.

On the other hand this software looks VERY useful and I'm excited to see it.

On the contrary, you need to look at it from the perspective that it has the ability for "building" or designing combis. You can already manipulate KARMA GE parameters in real time right within the KRONOS. So, why would you need this software to do that? Look at the free video tutorials for M3 combi building from Karma Lab to get an idea of what I am saying. http://www.karma-lab.com/forum/forumdis ... orumid=238 This is one aspect of Ed's forthcoming software that will make such endeavours easier because of the larger user interface that a computer or tablet can afford over KRONOS smaller UI. Once you have your combi designed, then you can manipulate the GE parameters further in real time. Now if you want to edit the KARMA GEs themselves or create new GEs, then you need the KARMA software. That's how I see it.

What I'm trying to point here is that this software works with the PCG file and not with the Kronos itself. Exactly like PCGtools
does on Windows enviroment. Obviously this software has much more features theb PCGtools.
But as far as you cannot work in real-time (conected directly to the Kronos like the official editor does) it's a kind of complicated to mess with the Karma parameters. As I said before it is handy to copy Karma settings from a combi to another but I guess that's it.
Maybe the developer can concentrate his effort to sometnhing more useful than Karma parametersm, this is what I'm trying to say. I guess also my english doesn't help me too much.

andreidelait wrote:What I'm trying to point here is that this software works with the PCG file and not with the Kronos itself. Exactly like PCGtools
does on Windows enviroment. Obviously this software has much more features theb PCGtools.
But as far as you cannot work in real-time (conected directly to the Kronos like the official editor does) it's a kind of complicated to mess with the Karma parameters. As I said before it is handy to copy Karma settings from a combi to another but I guess that's it.
Maybe the developer can concentrate his effort to sometnhing more useful than Karma parametersm, this is what I'm trying to say. I guess also my english doesn't help me too much.

To be honest with you, I'd like the ability to work either independently from the KRONOS or connected. Each has its advantages. However, I'll let Ed answer you more specifically.

andreidelait wrote:What I'm trying to point here is that this software works with the PCG file and not with the Kronos itself. Exactly like PCGtools
does on Windows enviroment. Obviously this software has much more features theb PCGtools.

There are also differences ... PCGed is much better in parameter settings (actually, it is an editor), for librarian functionalities it is a bit similar, for list generation PCG Tools has more features. But to each their own.

michelkeijzers wrote:

andreidelait wrote:What I'm trying to point here is that this software works with the PCG file and not with the Kronos itself. Exactly like PCGtools
does on Windows enviroment. Obviously this software has much more features theb PCGtools.

There are also differences ... PCGed is much better in parameter settings (actually, it is an editor), for librarian functionalities it is a bit similar, for list generation PCG Tools has more features. But to each their own.

Yes Michel you're right. I've just mentioned both because both open a PCG file, edit and save it. After that you load it into the Kronos and see the results. That's why I don't think the Karma parameters are so useful. Anyway maybe it's just me but I think is very difficult to know the result of all Karma parameters without testing them in real-time.
There are a few people here that said they would love to edit Karma from the PCGed like they tought it is a real-time editor.
I guess some of them misunderstood PCGed functionality.
Anyway I think I made my point here as far as my english allows me. Maybe I've got some of you confused. If so, excuse me for that.

EJ2 wrote:

andreidelait wrote:What I'm trying to point here is that this software works with the PCG file and not with the Kronos itself. Exactly like PCGtools
does on Windows enviroment. Obviously this software has much more features theb PCGtools.
But as far as you cannot work in real-time (conected directly to the Kronos like the official editor does) it's a kind of complicated to mess with the Karma parameters. As I said before it is handy to copy Karma settings from a combi to another but I guess that's it.
Maybe the developer can concentrate his effort to sometnhing more useful than Karma parametersm, this is what I'm trying to say. I guess also my english doesn't help me too much.

To be honest with you, I'd like the ability to work either independently from the KRONOS or connected. Each has its advantages. However, I'll let Ed answer you more specifically.

This is actually a really interesting question to me. For the most part I agree with EJ2. I think there is a ton of "administrative" work that can be done without being bent over the Kronos. One workflow would be setup the basic combi. You know you want say drums, piano, string whatever. Set the basic parameters for that. Set the basic of KARMA, guitar gets a guitar strum, bass get some bass pattern. Make sure everything in on the correct timbre etc, etc . At some point I would totally agree then you need to be at the machine and experiment and tweak. But for me the touch screen size and setup is slow in the beginning.

That being said - I have been working on having the major KARMA parameters working. But, the idea of concentration my efforts on the biggest bang for most people is always a consideration. So, will the initial release include KARMA... doubtful. Will it be available later in an update or "pro" version, very likely. A lot of factors at play here including how different users needs are, as illustrated by this mini-thread.
I really appreciate hearing opinions on both sides though. I know I use the Kronos differently than a lot of people who are happy with the tools out there, but for me never quite gave me the options I needed.

andreidelait wrote:

michelkeijzers wrote:

andreidelait wrote:What I'm trying to point here is that this software works with the PCG file and not with the Kronos itself. Exactly like PCGtools
does on Windows enviroment. Obviously this software has much more features theb PCGtools.

There are also differences ... PCGed is much better in parameter settings (actually, it is an editor), for librarian functionalities it is a bit similar, for list generation PCG Tools has more features. But to each their own.

Yes Michel you're right. I've just mentioned both because both open a PCG file, edit and save it. After that you load it into the Kronos and see the results. That's why I don't think the Karma parameters are so useful. Anyway maybe it's just me but I think is very difficult to know the result of all Karma parameters without testing them in real-time.
There are a few people here that said they would love to edit Karma from the PCGed like they tought it is a real-time editor.
I guess some of them misunderstood PCGed functionality.
Anyway I think I made my point here as far as my english allows me. Maybe I've got some of you confused. If so, excuse me for that.

I think you were very clear from the beginning, especially with the videos, but we both know a lot about the 'power' of PCG files.

However, you will always find people wanting things to do only on their Kronos, as much offline as possible (because of a big screen and full typing keyboard), or a mix ... and some of them want it remote, and some don't ... or want both. But since you can only do one thing at a time you have to chose what you want to make ... I have the same problem .

michelkeijzers wrote: for list generation PCG Tools has more features. But to each their own.

I wouldn't make that assumption or any others about what PCGed will eventually do or not do other than what I have shown in videos.

There are a lot of things I have already programmed for my own use that may or may not make it into the release version.

Perhaps we all should just wait until the first version of the program will appear.

Not much to evaluate before real use IMHO.

jimknopf wrote:Perhaps we all should just wait until the first version of the program will appear.

Not much to evaluate before real use IMHO.

I do like to hear observations and ideas. My comment was just that to say it does or does not do something at this point is not very useful or probably accurate.

I have made some decisions based on what people have commented on so I hope there continues to be productive discussion.