Korg Forums

Hey all, just got a KP3+ added to the setup a week or two ago, and I'm having trouble figuring out if my ideal MIDI setup is doable. Here's what I'm trying to get going:

An electro-harmonix 45000 looper as tempo MASTER
>
Korg KP3 as tempo SLAVE
>
Roland SP-404SX as SLAVE

Basically, I want the 45000 to control the tempo of the KP3, which in turn should control the tempo of the 404. So far, I can only get either:

A) The 45000 to control the KP3 (when I set the KP3's clock to EXTERNAL), but the 404 receives no MIDI data

B) The KP3 to control the 404 (with the KP3's clock set to INTERNAL), but the 45000 has nothing to do with either.

I guess what I'm asking is wether or not the KP3 can receive and transmit MIDI clock data at the same time. Sorry for the newb question - I've looked through the forums pretty extensively in the past few days and while I have learned a lot about the clock settings of the KP3, I haven't read anything about a setup quite like mine.

Thanks guys!

oops - read again what you want to do -

I dont believe it can do what you want.

I'm currently using a laptop, the Kaossilator Pro and the KP3 all together, with the laptop generating the clock and feeding it to the Kaossilator and the Kaossilator into the KP3.
Both the Kaossilator and the KP3 have their tempo set to AUTO, hope that helps.

The KPro or KP3s don't work as Midi thru devices. They have an In and Out but no Thru.

To have the Looper governing the KP3 and the SP404 - you need a Midi Thru box after the Looper.

The KP3 doesn't sync to midi timing messages. All it does is set the BPM, but that's not the same as synch. Then again, synching the SP404 is pretty useless too because the pattern sequencer is so terrible on it. Pretty much the only useful reason to hook midi to the KP3 and SP404 is to trigger individual samples from an external sequencer that controls all the timing itself. The KP3 drum patterns will drift out of sync from the midi master, no matter what you do, since it doesn't sync to the midi clock. It will merely start at basically the same tempo, but the patterns and loops will end up drifting if you let them run. I'm not sure if the SP404 will drift too, since I've never really used the pattern sequencer after I learned how brain dead it is.

This brings up an important point about midi, though. Don't expect everything to automatically remain in sync via midi just because it has midi. You have to test it a lot to see how it really behaves, and usually the answer is that it doesn't do what you might hope it would do. As far as actually getting the midi from the looper to the KP3 and SP404, you need a midi splitter box.

http://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/MIDIthru4/

that's the box I use - on other stuff like drum machines and volcas..but never tried on KPs.. yet.

Interested to hear about the SP404 pattern midi problems - what had you encountered there?

The problem with the SP404 pattern sequencer is the workflow of trying to edit a pattern in realtime with all the drum parts in a single track entirely by ear to delete a hit by having to hit the "wrong" note at the right time. It's so much easier to edit patterns visually in software on a piano roll or in hardware on a step sequencer. It's like having to go back to the days of magnetic reel-to-reel audio editing: so crude and antiquated. Then there's the fact that the SP404 doesn't have velocity pads, so no matter what you do you're going to end up with very artificial sounding drum patterns. A lot of people don't remember or know that the 404 doesn't have velocity.

The older SP606 is much better since it has velocity, 4 tracks for the pattern, a step sequencer, pattern cursor nav (stop,start,ff,rev), and chaining of patterns to make a song. It has midi in and out, USB, and editing software. It also has an LCD to see what's happening, like to see the waveform of the sample you want to edit. The SP404 has none of that and is a huge downgrade from the 606. The 555 is newer than the 606, but also was a big downgrade (and has a retarded looper that can't save loops to memory while looping). But it's all still ancient compared to modern software.

Thanks for your thoughts -

I can't - and wont - argue with anybody's opinion. I have 2 (Ogs as a matter of fact) - one's card reader fried so its now a 2nd effects box.

The points you raise about the unit are valid - but all things you learn to work around. Or you don't and you dump it on e-bay.

I was expecting you had some experience with the unit's Midi performance - glitches in pattern replays etc - which, thankfully, you haven't indicated.

I hadn't come across anything like midi glitches myself - so the original poster should be able to work it happily in with his setup if he gets the midi box you showed him.

slagging the SP404?

challenge accepted!

I should point out that I'm not really slamming the 404, even though I covered a lot my gripes about it. The question was about flaws, so out came my gripe list. I still own one. But I also still have my 606, so the flaws with the 404 are more readily apparent by comparison to it. I work around the limitations of the 404 by not using the pattern sequencer at all. I use it for one-shots and loops that I edit and setup in advance. I also use the FX like the subsonic synthesis.

The 404 is great for long sample times, lighted pads, and lots of good audio effects derived from the Fantom. It also runs nicely on AA batteries, which the 606 doesn't do. The 606 can only use 512MB flash cards, while the 404 can use 2GB. The 404SD expanded the flash max, but it was hardly worth the effort to release a new model for that feature alone.

I'm just looking for an excuse to take my SP skills to another level.

focus on solutions not on problems.

If I listened to what a lot of people said about the EMX I'd have dumped it long before I started getting it to sound less "EMX-y"