Korg Forums

Hi all.

Just a random thought for today.

Considering the level of touch sensitive surface technology and alternative means on control that's been around for many years now, why do you think we are not seeing any of this making it's way into modern workstations.

Old school analog synths had all manner of knobs, sliders and buttons on every inch of their work area. The analogs of today are still the same. The VA Synths of today haven't even evolved much at all away from the old way of offering control on an analog either.

Same goes for most digital workstations on the market too, including the KRONOS. We still have lots of buttons, sliders and knobs.

There was a short period though where this wasn't the case. KORG's workstations between the M1 and Trinity seemed to show a completely different trend at the time. You had a workspace almost void of all buttons sliders, and not a knob in sight.

We saw this theme evolve towards the Trinity which was the first KORG workstation to have Touch Technology in the form of a ribbon and touch screen. Oddly enough after the Trinity things start to go back to having more buttons, knobs and sliders which brings us to the KRONOS of today.

Why do you think this is the case?

Where are all the touch surface technology we see in every day appliances as surly that is a better means of control modern hardware.

I get more expressiveness and creativity from my Leap Motion controller for example than I could ever do from a knob or slider.

Regards
Sharp

I suppose it all depends on what you are using the control surface for. When programming I thing real knobs and sliders can be more accurate and easier to use. With touch screens you are often covering up what you are trying to control with your finger and can't see things.

For live impromptu performances alternate controllers like the Leap Motion may be an advantage since they tend to allow more expressive motions and gestures. But I would think it's not very good for fine tuning an oscillator.

Personally if given a choice of knobs and sliders vs other touch controls I would choose knobs and sliders. I'm spoiled now by all the knobs on my P12. But even that has touch and pressure sensitive sliders which are nice.

I think that synth manufactures need to provide a mix of the different controls available. Use what ever is more appropriate for the task. Trying to have one type of control that will do it all is a mistake. Trying to force touch technology into an app where it is not best suited only turns people away from it rather than embracing it.

My Moog Voyager has a touch surface that I almost never use.
I believe the JP80's touch screen is capacitive and quite good?

I need tactile feedback. I'm constantly doing things without looking and that is near impossible (especially for fine adjustments) with a touchscreen. I have fat finger pads and am constantly missing things on small touch screens.

That being said, I love the instant reconfigurability that touchscreens offer. I think a hybrid is the best approach.

jeebustrain wrote:I need tactile feedback. I'm constantly doing things without looking and that is near impossible (especially for fine adjustments) with a touchscreen. I have fat finger pads and am constantly missing things on small touch screens.

That being said, I love the instant reconfigurability that touchscreens offer. I think a hybrid is the best approach.

+1

In my case, it isn't so much the size of my fingers but the quality of my vision. I wear trifocals. Depending on which lens I look through, objects appear to move. I really don't care for pure touch screen interfaces.

Touch screens and knobs/sliders have different advantages. I want both.

A suitable sized touch screen as we had on Trinity and have on Kronos is good to dig through menu based user interfaces. Think about the Global parameters of a Kronos but accessable like in some vintage synths:
- one small screen with two lines of text,
- a "dial" to switch "pages" and
- a "cursor" to select parameters, may be 2 or 4 per page.
- and remember the "typing/dialing in" of text the old way...

For such a deep workstation like the Kronos a GUI with touch screen is mandatory to support work efficiency.

On the other side, if I set up a patch
- I want to have knobs and sliders
- or something real that I can touch and
- that gives me a real feedback.

My hands and arms are "mechanical" and evolution has given me good control over my fingertips - turning a knob feels more natural, than moving a mouse on screen or sliding a finger on a sleek surface ...

The Kronos touch screen is great for it allows for the patch aerea of MOD-7 and MS-20. But for filters, resonances, ADSRs, LFOs, and all the other parameters I would like to have even more knobs. For me it would be best, if we had it the old fashioned way:

A dedicated knob-section for

- OSC
- filters
- envelopes
- ... and so forth ...

There could be buttons to switch between OSC 1, OSC2, ... filter 1, filter 2 ... etc.

Hi Guys.

What I was thinking about wasn't to loose a tactile feel.

Take the Wavestations Vector Joystick for example. The Ribbon on the Z1 has the same ability as a Vector Joystick and during a performance it's easier to quick touch it than try to grab a Joystick.

This X/Y Pad is the core interface for the KAOSS Pads and it also allows you to enter in values. So in my opinion that's a clear improvement over the Vector Joystick, yet the KRONOS has one and not an X/Y Pad.

Or how about if we must have sliders and not vertical ribbons, then why are they not motorised.

Or how about a nice 15 Inch Multi Touch Monitor. I'm sure that would greatly reduce the need for real buttons knobs and sliders.

I loved how on the Trinity for example if you touched a slider on the screen, it blew up to the full size of the screen and you could drag your finger across the screen to raise or lower it.

Regards
Sharp

You are completely right if you think about performance related real-time use. IMHO there is not much need to tweek a parameter with high accuracy. For performance I like concepts like the QuNeo controller or the Leap Motion device very much.

But - and this is only my personal point - I have more fun tweeking real knobs, where I can grip a thing, feel a little drag, and it stops in a position that I can review later - it's more physical.

May be that I am just not ready to enter "The Matrix".

Sharp wrote:Hi Guys.

What I was thinking about wasn't to loose a tactile feel.

Take the Wavestations Vector Joystick for example. The Ribbon on the Z1 has the same ability as a Vector Joystick and during a performance it's easier to quick touch it than try to grab a Joystick.

This X/Y Pad is the core interface for the KAOSS Pads and it also allows you to enter in values. So in my opinion that's a clear improvement over the Vector Joystick, yet the KRONOS has one and not an X/Y Pad.

Or how about if we must have sliders and not vertical ribbons, then why are they not motorised.

Or how about a nice 15 Inch Multi Touch Monitor. I'm sure that would greatly reduce the need for real buttons knobs and sliders.

I loved how on the Trinity for example if you touched a slider on the screen, it blew up to the full size of the screen and you could drag your finger across the screen to raise or lower it.

Regards
Sharp

I would love a keyboard that has this variety of controls each being targeted at a function that is best utilized by its method of interaction. But ... imagine the cost of such a board. It's bad enough these days just getting a keybed with a decent feel.

A modular controller that was fully customizable would be nice. I saw one that had some customization at http://www.synthesizers.com/controllers.html.

Again, the Voyager has this in a basic "controller" form and the JP80's touch screen is way more responsive and suitable for performance than the Kronos one. I believe even the M3 had a Kaoss Pad mode where you could use the screen as vector control?

It's not that it hasn't been done, is what I'm saying. I'd enjoy more features on the Kronos too. For now, an iPad with something like Lemur works great.

When keyboards started migrating away from dedicated controls, there was a backlash from the users, so manufacturers started providing them again. Even sliders for draw bars aren't adequate for some, who insist on feeling the clicks as they run 0-8 on each drawbar. In performance, there's definitely a different experience having a real knob/slider.