Korg Forums

<b>Problem description</b>
During my usage of (Korg) workstations in the last 20 years I had regularly the following problem:
- For a gig, I set up a bunch of combis (where 1 or more combis represented a song we played)
- All volumes of the combi(s) are set up relative to eachother (meaning, for some combis, the volume was low, for others higher).
- Then I wanted to increase the volume of a combi, but the volume is already 127.

<b>Current 'Solutions'</b>
There are some options, but not so nice:
- Lower all other combis except the one where the volume should be higher, takes a lot of time (changing 50 combis).
- Use some tricks like adding an eq or compressor to increase the volume of a combi (or timbre of a combi).

<b>Prevention</b>
To prevent this problem, most people don't use volumes of 127 but much lower. However, you also loose headroom. If you lower all volumes to 80 by default, this is like using 67% of the max volume.

<b>New proposal</b>
Would it be nice if there would be a sort of 'batch edit' functionality for volume?

Below is what I want add to add in PCG Tools:

I think the following functions would be nice:
1. For all selected combis, use the Master volume (in MFX) to increase/decrease the volume percentually. (not all synthesizers have this option).
2. For all selected combis, use the individual Timbre volumes to incrase/decrease the volume percentually.
3. Use a combination, first use the Master volume, but if that is already to 127, use the timbre volumes to increase it more.
4. A Maximum volume option, where the maximum volume (relative) is set.
5. A Normalize volume option, where the minim/maximum values are lowered (or increased).

<b>Example</b>
Assume 3 combis are selected:
C000: 2 used timbres with volume 50 and 100, master volume 80
C001: 1 used timbre with volume 110, master volume 100
C002: 1 used timbre with volume 50, master volume 110

Example 1: let's say the volume needs to be increased by 20%. The result will be:
- C000: master volume will be 80*1.2=96, C001 master volume will become 100*1.2=120, C002 master volume will be 110*1.2=132 but since 127 is max, a warning will be given (before pressing ok) and will be set to 127 if continued.

Example 2: let's say the volume needs to be increased by 20%. The result will be:
C000 timbre 0 will change from 50*1.2=60, timbre 1 will be 100*1.2=120
C001 timbre 0 will change from 110*1.2=132 -> 127 (giving a warning before).
C002 timbre 0 will change from 50*1.2=60.

Example 3: Let's say the volume needs to be increased by 20%. The result will be:
As in example 1, the master volumes of C000 and C001 will be increased to 96 and 120. C002 will become 127 resulting in an increase of 127/110=15%. The remaining 5% will be acquired by changing the timbre of C002 from 50 to 55*1.05=57.75->58. If one of the timbres would be higher than 127 a warning will be given.

Example 4: With this option no percentage has to be given.
First the maximum volume will be calculated per timbre, these are:
- C000, timbre 0: 50/128 * 80/128 *100% = 24%, timbre 1: 49%
- C001, timbre 0: 110/128 * 100/128 * 100% = 67%
- C002, timbre 0: 50/128 * 110/128 * 100% = 34%
The maximum volume is thus 67%, meaning all combis can be increased by 100/67*100%=50% to reach their maximum volume without changing the relative volume between timbres/combis.
Now option 3 is used to accomplish this.

Example 5: With this option, a percentage can be given.
Then the minimum/maximum volume of each timbre will be calculated.
If a normalization of e.g. 10% is selected, the volumes will be 10% less different, i.e. assume the minimum volume is 50 and maximum volume is 100. The difference is 50. The max. difference will become 50 * (100-10)% = 45. Meaning the minimum volume will be increased with 2,5 -> 3, the maximum volume will be decreased with 2,5 -> 3, and other volumes will change by ratio.
The algorithms to be used can be of option 1 to 3 (MFX, timbres, or combination).

<b>Set lists</b>
For setlists, something similar can be created. Actually, only option 1 and 4 apply. However, there could be another option, using first set list slot volumes to be changed, than combi volumes.

<b>Questions</b>
- Would you think such features are convenient to have?
- Do you have other solutions/improvements?
- Do you see problems in these solutions?

Michael, I've often thought of doing exactly what you are talking about. The patches & Combis vary so much in volume that its often difficult to go about adjusting them relative to each other and relative to what the you need to cut through in the band. I'd very much appreciate the feature you're offering. I've not readjusted everything exactly because the more combis I create the more readjusting I'd have to do to normalize volumes across them. I often have to just remember "this is a hot combi, I have to turn my volume down a quarter turn" or something like that. I'm in support of what you've proposed.

I could be wrong but I thought the use of certain FX can enhance volume.

Conversely, if certain combis and their programs ( not patches) do not use heavy FX, they will sound less present

My preference in a tool like this would be to strictly work with set list mode, rather than modify patches, combis and songs.

In set list mode, trying to increase a slot above 100% would subsequently reduce the volumes of all other slots in that set list.

NJkeysman888 wrote:Michael, I've often thought of doing exactly what you are talking about. The patches & Combis vary so much in volume that its often difficult to go about adjusting them relative to each other and relative to what the you need to cut through in the band. I'd very much appreciate the feature you're offering. I've not readjusted everything exactly because the more combis I create the more readjusting I'd have to do to normalize volumes across them. I often have to just remember "this is a hot combi, I have to turn my volume down a quarter turn" or something like that. I'm in support of what you've proposed.

Thanks for your input. I think normalizing might also be an interesting option. It is not in my proposal above. Meaning to lower the high volumes, higher the low volumes. I will add this too.

GregC wrote:I could be wrong but I thought the use of certain FX can enhance volume.

Conversely, if certain combis and their programs ( not patches) do not use heavy FX, they will sound less present

Yes it is true that certain FX can enhance volume ... but why using an FX to increase only volume? It's a waist of FX.

And I don't want to change the FX settings, but let people change the volume of multiple patches at the same time. If you mean volume inside a combi, that's already easy on the synth itself (by keeping one timbre steady while moving the volumes of other timbres).

LZ wrote:My preference in a tool like this would be to strictly work with set list mode, rather than modify patches, combis and songs.

In set list mode, trying to increase a slot above 100% would subsequently reduce the volumes of all other slots in that set list.

.

In my proposal you also can use only set list slot volume changes.
I don't know exactly your second paragraph. You want to change also set list slots which are NOT selected? (that would seem a bit awkward to me).

michelkeijzers wrote:

GregC wrote:I could be wrong but I thought the use of certain FX can enhance volume.

Conversely, if certain combis and their programs ( not patches) do not use heavy FX, they will sound less present

Yes it is true that certain FX can enhance volume ... but why using an FX to increase only volume? It's a waist of FX.

And I don't want to change the FX settings, but let people change the volume of multiple patches at the same time. If you mean volume inside a combi, that's already easy on the synth itself (by keeping one timbre steady while moving the volumes of other timbres).

To clarify, the existing Programs make strong use of FX. My thought that the baked in FX are a natural contributor to the varying degree of volume. Granted, the programs won't sound as great without the FX.

Plus some acoustic instruments are not loud by nature. Clarinet, classical guitar , oboe are examples.

I do get the context of the challenge. You are at a gig, and can get challenged by loud guitars by loud drums, etc.

Way back in my band days, I always harped about the band using dynamics within a song. Like " hey guys, lighten up to allow the vocalist to have the intro verse ". I always was given the argument, ' its rock and roll, and every verse, chorus, bridge has to be loud '.

GregC wrote:

michelkeijzers wrote:

GregC wrote:I could be wrong but I thought the use of certain FX can enhance volume.

Conversely, if certain combis and their programs ( not patches) do not use heavy FX, they will sound less present

Yes it is true that certain FX can enhance volume ... but why using an FX to increase only volume? It's a waist of FX.

And I don't want to change the FX settings, but let people change the volume of multiple patches at the same time. If you mean volume inside a combi, that's already easy on the synth itself (by keeping one timbre steady while moving the volumes of other timbres).

To clarify, the existing Programs make strong use of FX. My thought that the baked in FX are a natural contributor to the varying degree of volume. Granted, the programs won't sound as great without the FX.

Plus some acoustic instruments are not loud by nature. Clarinet, classical guitar , oboe are examples.

I do get the context of the challenge. You are at a gig, and can get challenged by loud guitars by loud drums, etc.

Way back in my band days, I always harped about the band using dynamics within a song. Like " hey guys, lighten up to allow the vocalist to have the intro verse ". I always was given the argument, ' its rock and roll, and every verse, chorus, bridge has to be loud '.

Thanks for the clarification. However, my solution is not necessarily for that problem. Meaning, a computer program can never decide what the volume should be per timbre or for different combis automatically. Luckily that is the responsibility of the keyboardist.

However, in some cases, you want to decrease the volumes of a lot of combis, because e.g. you want to increas the volume of one which is already on the maximum volume. Or you have rehearsed with the band and you noticed that volume difference between different combis should be higher or lower. In that case, instead of manually changing all volumes one by one and saving them one by one, this new feature might be useful.