Korg Forums

Hi guys,

Need you for some brain storming. Longer post after the break:

I'm in the middle of some research regarding sound reproduction of digital pianos. I'm a trained pianist and as good as the Kronos and every serious digital pianos get, it does not breath and behave in the way i expect from a piano. Why? Well, because its not a piano. With a half damper and a couple of decent speakers it makes it a bit better, but because it does not have a sound source of its own it simply falls short. My goal is to make it possible to have an electric instrument that can be miked on stage like any other instrument. Why? Because it would become a living, breathing instrument of its own that reacts to its acoustic environment.

Now as far as I understand (and here i need some correction), Kronos pianos (and EP's) is designed as a stereo instrument and does not have a surround source, as in 5.1 or more. So, one should make the best of the stereo image:

http://www.soundonsound.com/sos/jul11/a ... 0711-3.htm

Fine. Sounds brilliant in the studio. But how about this?

http://isobelaudio.com

A Hemisphere speaker. I can't find the link now but some guy somewhere has experimented a bit with using hemispheres with pianos. This got me started on this idea: Using this, or an equivalent, it would perhaps act as a digital soundboard. This is important because what makes an instrument is its resonant box. If the Kronos (which have amazing pianos, organs and EP's) had a "soundboard" of its own, it would be bloody brilliant. Why is this important? Well, I'm dead tired of hearing my mono sound on stage. I want a proper instrument on stage.

But it's damn many variables here [ramblings to follow, please insert thoughts]:

1) Has anyone tried a hemisphere speaker?

2) The Hemisphere has 6 inputs, meant to distribute a "surround" sound image. How would a stereo input react in a hemisphere setup? The piano in the kronos is hyper realistic, as in extreme panning, just as you where sitting less then 0.5 meters away from the instrument (lets not get into the discussion of whether this is a good thing or not...). But is the Kronos, with its many outputs, compatible with a hemisphere setup?

3) If one where to get a hemisphere speaker to deliver sound as if it was a piano, or fender rhodes or B3 or clavinet (omni-sounding instruments), how to make the amplitude powerful enough? Next to a drum kit a tiny speaker like this would simply drown.

4) forgot point 4. will get back to it.


Let the discussions begin.

I'm a little confused by the ultimate point of your post. I don't understand the part about mic'ing. If you want stereo sound on stage, why not use in-ears (or simply stereo monitors)?

Sorry for the confusion. In-ears are great fun, but if i have a hemisphere, or something similar, to act as a sound source, it would be as having a acoustic piano on stage, a B3 with a leslie or a rhodes with a twin reverb. My point is to have an instrument on stage. Placing a couple of stereo speakers in each corner of the kronos is not going to achieve this. Perhaps my post could be boiled down to whether you guys have tried a similar idea with luck.

So it is this...?

http://isobelaudio.com/hemispheres/

Looks like it belongs in some rappers trunk...

I can't really see this idea adding anything useful in sound or functionality but if you end up trying it out I'd be interested to hear your experiences.

The hemisphere is used here: http://slork.stanford.edu With great success one might add.

I think this is really barking up the wrong tree. Even with the Hemisphere speaker system, you'll never get a digital piano to sound exactly like a real
acoustic piano - because it isn't a mechanical instrument, inside a wooden enclosure, with moving parts and reflections from the piano shell and lid
and physical interaction between strings and dampers and hammers and harp and….man, I could go on and on.

The Hemispheres system, at best, would only be of value to you, the player, within a short distance of the system. The audience at the back of the 18,00-seat Forum isn't going to experience that.

I realize where you are coming from, wouldn't we all love to have a digital piano that sounded exactly like the real thing in front of us. Physically modeled pianos (like Pianoteq) come closer than sampled pianos (including the Kronos pianos) but computer power still isn't sufficient to recreate a real piano algorithmically yet. That day is still in the future.

What does a real piano mic'd up and run through a big P.A. sound like?
Like a recorded piano, in stereo. You still won't get the full 3-D effect you would from sitting in front of a piano in your living room.

I think David is right here. I've been doing live sound on and off since the mid seventies. If you are trying to get the audience to feel like you are playing a real accoustic piano I don't think the Kronos is the way to go. I think you might be better off with a Yamaha Avant grand.

However, if you are looking to just have yourself hear and feel the true piano concept while playing your Kronos live I think you might just want to get a very high end full range stereo monitor system and tweak the Kronos piano until it satisfies you. I'm not entirely certain that the Hemishere speaker will give you the full audio range. I could be wrong here since I didn't have time to check their specs but as far as I can see, you would need at least 2 of them. We have 2 ears after all. This is how we perceive the world.

Please don't feel that I'm being demeaning in any way. I totally understand why you would want to get the full piano feel when playing. I grew up playing a Gulbranson upright and I have yet to experience the magic of a real piano from a synth or workstation. The closest I've got has been the Yamaha Avant but for me it becomes a transport issue. Not to mention the cost.

I'm going to follow what you are searching for and wish you all the luck in the world. You are on a worthy quest!

Good thinking going on here, thanks guys. Will post here about my trials and errors.