Timing

barry murphy · Post by **barry murphy** » Thu Oct 30, 2014 1:54 am

I am using studio one as a DAW. I have the pa3x thru a mixer into audiobox usb. A unusual timing error has occurred.
I normally record a track(s) into the DAW from the korg for a song.
Timing setups are the same 120bpm over 100 measures. The korg is 1/8 measure slow over this amount. I also have a kn6000 kb and it is spot on over the same amount.
Altho it's not a problem, I'm curious as to why the korg does this and is there a remedy?
Baz

barry murphy · Post by **barry murphy** » Thu Oct 30, 2014 3:05 am

I should add that this is occurring with audio. I haven't checked the midi because I don't use it yet. I have a keylab49 that uses midi and there is no probs there.
Baz

Sam CA · Post by **Sam CA** » Thu Oct 30, 2014 4:23 am

barry murphy wrote:I am using studio one as a DAW. I have the pa3x thru a mixer into audiobox usb. A unusual timing error has occurred.
I normally record a track(s) into the DAW from the korg for a song.
Timing setups are the same 120bpm over 100 measures. The korg is 1/8 measure slow over this amount. I also have a kn6000 kb and it is spot on over the same amount.
Altho it's not a problem, I'm curious as to why the korg does this and is there a remedy?
Baz

So when you look at your DAW, the starting point of audio is exactly where it should be but the ending is offset by 1/8 note? or even the starting point of the audio is late? Does the recorded audio track have a slower/different tempo?

barry murphy · Post by **barry murphy** » Thu Oct 30, 2014 4:55 am

Yes. I start it right on the beat and it slowly progresses to a little at a time.
I do have the pa and the daw showing 120 BPM.I've been looking thru the manuals but I can't find anything mainly because I'm not sure where to look.
Thank you for your reply.
Barry

Sam CA · Post by **Sam CA** » Thu Oct 30, 2014 5:44 am

barry murphy wrote:Yes. I start it right on the beat and it slowly progresses to a little at a time.
I do have the pa and the daw showing 120 BPM.I've been looking thru the manuals but I can't find anything mainly because I'm not sure where to look.
Thank you for your reply.
Barry

ok, so you do end up with a track that has a different tempo. There's no particular setting for this. All digital devices have some sort of internal clock so depending on the kind of device you use you might get a good or poor syncing results. Some even use a Master clock to sync up multiple devices. That would be an overkill for a Keyboard/soundcard/DAW set up.

I still don't think your recording should be off that much unless you're recording like for 40 minutes nonstop.

The reason I was asking about the starting point of your audio was that there's always a latency going on as the signal travels from the source to the target (Analog to digital conversion...etc)...Even if you start recording on the downbeat of your grid, you still have to move the waveform back a little bit (after recording) to make sure the transients of your audio snap to the grid.

barry murphy · Post by **barry murphy** » Thu Oct 30, 2014 7:27 am

OK I understand that. Thank you.
But why is the other KB ok. It too is connected thru the mixer.
Another forum gave an answer about timestamps so I'll go look that up!!
Barry

Dikikeys · Post by **Dikikeys** » Thu Oct 30, 2014 10:53 pm

Very few DAW's can resolve word clock accurately from incoming MIDI clock data. You'll get a better lock if you clock the arranger from the DAW via MIDI clock, but of course, you lose any timing changes (ritardandos at the end, for instance) that the arranger did.

Your other way to keep lock is to convert the arranger performance into an SMF, then play the SMF from the DAW. Word clock and MIDI clock should be pretty tight by then.

But in all this, I'm presuming you have at least SOME kind of sync between the two devices, otherwise it is not really unexpected that there is a slight amount of drift. I doubt that any arranger has the clock resolution of most DAW's (Cubase, for instance, can resolve to 1/1000th of a BPM), most arrangers seem to only display, at least, to the nearest whole BPM. Whether they resolve fractional tempos internally, I'm not quite sure, but I doubt it.

barry murphy · Post by **barry murphy** » Thu Oct 30, 2014 11:36 pm

Thanks fellas.
As I said, it isn't a problem. I was just curious. OMG my technics does something that my pa3x can't. What a blow!!!!
Baz

barry murphy · Post by **barry murphy** » Sun Nov 09, 2014 12:55 am

I've done some more testing on this and it seems like it is the korg that is out of sync.
I activated some midi channels on the DAW(studio one) and played 50 measures at 80 bpm and the end result was 1/16(approx) out. So it does the same midi or audio.
I have left a ticket with presonus (no answer yet) but there must be a way to fix this. I just can't find it.
The kn6000 does it perfectly(only checked audio).
It is OK if I play the backing for a song from beginning to end but I can't split the backing onto different tracks without the timing being out.
Very frustrating. I know it's my inexperience but what the hell, I have to fix this.
Barry

barry murphy · Post by **barry murphy** » Sun Nov 09, 2014 3:01 am

Damn!! quantisize. Never thought of it before. Fixes everything. Ha Ha what a dolt I am.

baz

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