Polyphony

geoelectro · Post by **geoelectro** » Tue Dec 09, 2014 2:53 pm

My go to sound is the German Grand layered with a stereo String and stereo Pad sampled from Omnisphere. That way, If I want a more mellow "pad" I can reduce the string volume, and for a brighter "pad" turn the strings up. These sounds are on my volume pedal so I can control the volume at all times while the piano plays full.

After installing the new OS I'm spending some time cleaning up some patches. I noticed my note usage is rather high. 5 to 6 notes per key!

So I decided to try using only one of the pad samples (left for example) from the original stereo set and use the IFX to simulate stereo. I take the mono sample and pan it left. Run it through the IFX Pitch Shift Mod and pan it right. Now I can detune the right from the left and get nearly the same sound as the original stereo sound. Did this for the string sample as well. Now, I get three notes per key and the note usage is well under the limit that causes stealing. And, it basically sounds the same! Since I use this live any subtle difference would be lost in the mix anyway.

Geo

NuSkoolTone · Post by **NuSkoolTone** » Tue Dec 09, 2014 6:24 pm

I would have never thought of polyphony conservation on the Kronos as an issue, but great idea Geo!

JPROBERTLA · Post by **JPROBERTLA** » Sun Dec 14, 2014 2:00 pm

I have always had a problem with polyphony. I suspect this is because I use 10 - 16 tracks in sequencer mode all of the time. I really can't tell what notes are being stolen, but I suspect that decaying percussion and guitar notes are what the dynamic voice allocation process is targeting.

Because I play in a duo and trio that uses the sequencer 100% of the time during performances, I have had this issue in every workstation I have ever used. I originally would have purchased the K88, as I have used one keyboard since the Trinity. I did not get the original K88 because of the keyed problems. I will get a new K88 early next year and try go back to a one keyboard rig. But before parting with my K61, I will try using both at the same time, splitting the sequencer parts. If adding that much polyphony makes an significant audible difference I will consider keeping the K61 and stick with a two keyboard rig. Hate the idea of moving and setting up both, but in the end the sound is top priority.

psionic311 · Post by **psionic311** » Sun Dec 14, 2014 2:36 pm

Thanks for the tip Geo. You were proactive when you saw the performance usage meters hitting 5-6 notes per key. I take it you weren't experiencing audible voice stealing?

I've noticed a lot more voice stealing since OS3. I had enabled simulated sympathetic resonance and saved it to the Kronos German Grand, but then I disabled and saved it that original way since the sound is used everywhere and the sweetening effect is not really needed 100% of the time.

But since I do use several layered tracks at a time in Combi mode, I do still notice voice stealing. I'm faintly considering getting another Kronos, and like you JP, would use both Kronos to distribute the polyphony to work around voice stealing.

To that end, has anyone ever tried enabling the Kronos' odd or even MIDI note feature? It's located here:

GLOBAL/MIDI/MIDI... in the MIDI Setup section, under Basic/Note Receive

According to the Parameter Guide (p 773, Note Receive):

"By connecting the KRONOS to another KRONOS and setting one instrument to Even and the other to Odd, you can effectively double the polyphony by dividing the notes between the two instruments."

Looks like this would be also handy if you happen to have 2 of the same kind of synth that has limited polyphony.

SanderXpander · Post by **SanderXpander** » Sun Dec 14, 2014 2:55 pm

JP, why don't you just bounce some midi parts to audio?

JPROBERTLA · Post by **JPROBERTLA** » Mon Dec 15, 2014 1:53 am

I have thought of that but never tried it. I sometimes have to go back and make fine adjustments to tracks even long after I have played them for a while. Is bouncing to audio very hard to do and will I have similar editing capabilities to midi tracks?

SanderXpander · Post by **SanderXpander** » Mon Dec 15, 2014 6:09 am

It's been ages since I did it (I never use the sequencer) but I don't recall it being very hard, no. I guess it'd be some work considering you have many sequences and parts. But you could just do it on the most busy ones.

I don't know what kind of editing you're used to, you can cut and paste audio but obviously you can't alter notes or anything. But you could still keep the midi parts - either save a different version of your song and label it appropriately or just mute them (set to "live" mode in global). Seems a cheaper way to save polyphony than buying another Kronos

psionic311 · Post by **psionic311** » Sat Dec 20, 2014 7:54 am

In my infinite wisdom, I apparently forgot to switch on "Auto optimize RAM" on the GLOBAL Basic/Basic page...

I'm now experiencing much smoother polyphony, with hardly any glitching or voice stealing going on. Woot! The only lingering problem solved for me.

psionic311 · Post by **psionic311** » Fri Dec 26, 2014 4:36 pm

I found another way to optimize for greater polyphony.

I was still getting occasional note stealing or even notes not sounding on a combi using only one CX3 organ and a bass guitar made of 2 layered bass programs even only playing 4 notes at any given time!

Under GLOBAL/Basic/Basic... set "Mute Mode" to Live. Then go to the Combi and mute all unused tracks/timbres. The muted notes will not use any polyphony, unlike the Studio option. From the manual on page 757:

Live: Mutes control MIDI input to Timbres. This is useful
for live performance, since it allows you to create a set of
Timbres for layering (such as piano, strings, and a pad), and
then use the Mute buttons to enable and disable the layers as
desired, without using polyphony for the muted layers.

I only had 3 IFX, but I guess the CX3 organ along with the STR-1 Fretless used a lot of CPU resources. Muting and therefore shutting of the polyphony of unused sounds helped smooth things out now.

Don't forget to save your changes, in both GLOBAL and COMBI mode! HTH