Routing Kronos MIDI In to MIDI out using Karma?

Derek Cook · Post by **Derek Cook** » Tue Jan 13, 2015 9:05 am

Hi,

I looked at this before Christmas, and couldn't quite figure out if it was possible and put it to one side, but now quickly need to know if it can be done before I order MIDI splitters and Mergers;

I want to be able to take the MIDI Input data coming into the Kronos, and as well as playing Kronos sounds, selecting Set List Slots, etc., and also route the same data stream UNMODIFIED to the Kronos MIDI out (I can live with it being certain channels only), merged with any Kronos MIDI data (such as the control surface in EXT mode).

Is it possible to do this? I am so used to my old Rig of Yamaha EX5 and Novation Remote61 having MIDI Echo (and Merge functions).

I want data from my Roland FC300 MIDI Controller to go to the EX5 and Kronos (tick because the EX5 has MIDI Echo(!) so the MIDI going from the EX5 to the Kronos is a merged FC300/EX5 Stream), but I also want the FC300 and EX5 data to go from the Kronos to my laptop running Click tracks and a DMX light show. The light show is mostly automated, but some DMX cues need to be manual from the FC300 or notes from either the EX5 or Kronos for songs where we are not running a click. I also have a DMX controlled hazer, which I used to trigger from an FC300 foot switch sending a MIDI CC if I wanted some more haze.

I know I can purchase MIDI splitters and mergers to do the job, but I would really like to avoid that if possible! As it's more boxes and leads to go wrong (and cost).

Any help/advice much appreciated.

Bald Eagle · Post by **Bald Eagle** » Tue Jan 13, 2015 12:41 pm

Karma might be a possibility. There is a mention of it at the end of this thread ...
http://www.korgforums.com/forum/phpBB2/ ... hp?t=76415

psionic311 · Post by **psionic311** » Tue Jan 13, 2015 1:02 pm

Derek, can you split the MIDI chain using THRU from either the EX5 or Kronos?

FC300 ==> EX5 (in) ==> (merge) ==> Kronos (thru) ==> laptop

Alternatively, you could purchase another tier for your keyboard stand and bring the Novation back into service...

Derek Cook · Post by **Derek Cook** » Tue Jan 13, 2015 5:28 pm

Bald Eagle wrote:Karma might be a possibility. There is a mention of it at the end of this thread ...
http://www.korgforums.com/forum/phpBB2/ ... hp?t=76415

Thanks, that gives me a clue to follow up - i.e. the suggestion that you must remap a channel.

Derek Cook · Post by **Derek Cook** » Tue Jan 13, 2015 5:30 pm

psionic311 wrote:Derek, can you split the MIDI chain using THRU from either the EX5 or Kronos?

FC300 ==> EX5 (in) ==> (merge) ==> Kronos (thru) ==> laptop

Alternatively, you could purchase another tier for your keyboard stand and bring the Novation back into service...

Thanks for the suggestion. I could take the Kronos through signal, which would at least give me what the EX5/FC300 is providing. That would work for some things, but it wouldn't allow me to use the Kronos control surface in EXT mode.

I don't really want three tiers on stage, two is enough for me ...

StephenKay · Post by **StephenKay** » Tue Jan 13, 2015 9:56 pm

I don't think KARMA will do it, it wasn't designed to do this (although I know sometimes you can trick it into these kinds of toolbox applications), but I doubt it would echo sysex if it included it...

Honestly, I think it would be easier and you would be far better off just getting a few MIDI mergers and splitters as required.

Derek Cook · Post by **Derek Cook** » Wed Jan 14, 2015 7:16 am

StephenKay wrote:I don't think KARMA will do it, it wasn't designed to do this (although I know sometimes you can trick it into these kinds of toolbox applications), but I doubt it would echo sysex if it included it...

Honestly, I think it would be easier and you would be far better off just getting a few MIDI mergers and splitters as required.

Thanks, Stephen

I was hoping to get your opinion on it.

SYSEX I don't need to pass through, just notes and CCs.

I'll get splitters and mergers if I need to, I'm just trying to avoid if I can yet more boxes and cables to carry and to wire in.

If I can do what I need off the just the EX5 and its controls (and the FC300), then I just need one merger to merge Kronos MIDI Thu and MIDI out.

It would be great if Korg would add a MIDI Echo facility to the Kronos! I'll get in touch with Korg UK to request that.

jeebustrain · Post by **jeebustrain** » Wed Jan 14, 2015 5:44 pm

I get it with doing a straight midi echo - but I was wondering if anyone had ever managed to get a channel redirection working through the ports working

Basically, I have a 2nd controller on channel 16 and I want to use the Kronos to remap the channel to another module listening on Channel 9. The reason I don't change the channel itself is that there are certain songs (this is for live) where I want the module to be controlled by the kronos and certain situations where I want the module to be controlled by the Prophet (my other "controller")

I'm using an iConnectMIDI4+ to glue everything together, but I don't think there is a way for me to selectively change channel mappings on a song by song basis.

psionic311 · Post by **psionic311** » Wed Jan 21, 2015 12:38 pm

Derek, I'm not at my Kronos atm, but I had a thought that might work for you. Basically, what you need is an extra MIDI IN in order to achieve what you want, if I understand your goals correctly. Besides your EX5, the PC you connect to can also provide an extra MIDI In and MIDI merge capabilities. How? By getting a cheap additional old school PC 5-pin MIDI DIN adapter. With that, try this:

FC300 Out ==> PC MIDI In (via 5-pin DIN adapter)
PC Out/Merge (DIN) ==> EX5 In
EX5 Out/Merge ==> Kronos MIDI In
Kronos USB MIDI out/in <==> PC USB MIDI in/out

In theory, this will allow your FC300, EX5, the PC, and the Kronos to all be master controllers. The FC300 will talk to everyone else. I believe you may need to set Kronos Local Control to "off" to prevent a MIDI loop.

If you're wondering why I'm still pursuing this, I once hooked up all my home gear together in a big MIDI chain successfully. I like solving certain types of problems, and once I got my studio all hooked together, I had almost every keyboard/foot pedal/MIDI control surface as a controller, which was my main goal at the time.

Of course, it helped that I had Behringer MIDI merges galore, via the FCB1010, BCF, and BCRs, as well as a Kurzweil Expressionmate with dual MIDI ports and unprecedented MIDI mapping capabilities.

Of course, though, the best solution is a dedicated box, but this may present you an acceptable compromise.

psionic311 · Post by **psionic311** » Wed Jan 21, 2015 12:59 pm

Wait a minute, there might be an even more elegant solution.

FC300 ==> EX5 (merge) ==> Kronos ==> PC (via USB).

(You did not mention in the OP of needing the Kronos to control the EX5.)

This assumes MIDI over USB is merged. Probably too good to be true. Leaving work now to go try at home...

Derek Cook · Post by **Derek Cook** » Wed Jan 21, 2015 6:09 pm

Hmmm, I hadn't thought of connecting the laptop via USB. I still do that via a midi interface!

Will be interested in what you find. I haven't had time to progress this further, and am currently working on the assumption that I might need to get a merger (much as I'd like to avoid it).

I don't need the Kronos to control the EX5. It's always FC300 to EX5 (still a great master keyboard and more flexible than the Kronos in that respect) to the Kronos. I would like the laptop to be linked to the Kronos so that I could use the control surface if needed (replaces all the controls I had on the Remote61), but right now I am taking the Kronos MID THRU to the laptop so it is getting the FC300 and EX5 data.

Ksynth · Post by **Ksynth** » Wed Jan 21, 2015 6:59 pm

Derek Cook wrote:Hmmm, I hadn't thought of connecting the laptop via USB. I still do that via a midi interface!

Will be interested in what you find. I haven't had time to progress this further, and am currently working on the assumption that I might need to get a merger (much as I'd like to avoid it).

I don't need the Kronos to control the EX5. It's always FC300 to EX5 (still a great master keyboard and more flexible than the Kronos in that respect) to the Kronos. I would like the laptop to be linked to the Kronos so that I could use the control surface if needed (replaces all the controls I had on the Remote61), but right now I am taking the Kronos MID THRU to the laptop so it is getting the FC300 and EX5 data.

I bought a merger for $20 second hand. They are pretty rugged and it has never been a problem.

psionic311 · Post by **psionic311** » Thu Jan 22, 2015 9:34 am

Since you don't need the Kronos to be a master to the EX5, it seems to me like you already have all you need then. You're only missing Kronos OUT to the laptop... so just plug a USB cable from the Kronos to the laptop. Voila.

You have your 2 INs on your laptop this way... one with a DIN MIDI interface from the EX5 to the laptop, and the other will be the USB-MIDI interface from the Kronos. I tested the USB/MIDI THRU capabilities, and it doesn't work. But you can get what you require by that one extra USB cable, methinks.

I have an EX5r sitting collecting dust. I like it a lot, did quite a bit of research before I got it. One of the main things I wanted (and still want) was the physical modeling instruments in it... a poor man's VL70m... I got a horn to sound like a whale song once! I yet long for realistic brass in my setup (and I'm a trombone player, so am very picky about performance and brass realism). Unfortunately a sheet of plywood fell just so on the EX5r and knocked the buttons hard... now there's limited response from the front screen controls. I had intended one day to access everything via MIDI CCs, NRPNs, and SYSEX to get at the guts, but that priority fell way down the list...

Good luck in your endeavors.