New sound, need some assistance...

[AntonySharmman]

Under the Controllers page (under Common) you set SW2 to change the octave. This works for the individual layer, but when I put it into a combi, the SW2 does nothing at all.

I don't thing so ... Assign Combination controller SW2 to SW2 (not to octave) and will work , but I'll confirm it tomorrow !
Also we don't use the same switching , examine it deeper , I never use effects for that , only AMS , unless I run out of both AMS !

[enigmahack]

Let me clarify a bit.

In combi mode, to trigger a sound you need to set the midi channel to global. This is true for all the programs you use. (Not talking about KARMA as it's a different beast.)

Anyway I saw the sw being assigned as I mentioned in the controller settings. When I turn it into a combi with two programs both programs wiwill be triggered on the same midi channel. When you go into the combi and you want the sw to only affect one layer or program, adding the sw control to the program gets overridden by the combi settings.

I'm trying to find a way to get the combi to make the pitch change affect only 1 layer... Not all layers on the global channel.

That's where I'm stuck. The programs are both AL1 EXi's. As far as I can tell there are no AMS controls to alter the pitch by octaves... Suggestions?


**edit**
I just re read the post more closely... I'm going to try that right now...

**edit 2**
Okay just tried it out. Doesn't work. I set the program to change on sw2 and set it's parent combi to sw2 mod. It feels like it would make sense but it doesn't seem to work.

[AntonySharmman]

Okay just tried it out. Doesn't work. I set the program to change on sw2 and set it's parent combi to sw2 mod. It feels like it would make sense but it doesn't seem to work.

Today I tried everything I said and work just fine ...
Talking as reference my "SRM Lead" , where SW2 is assigned to octave down , so if you assign EXi pitch to Sw2 then Program
behaves exactly the same in COMBI mode , when SW2 is set to Sw2 mod.
PROGR octave Up/Down is a local function and doesn't work in deeper OSC level while in combi mode !!!

When you go into the combi and you want the sw to only affect one layer or program, adding the sw control to the program gets overridden by the combi settings.
I'm trying to find a way to get the combi to make the pitch change affect only 1 layer... Not all layers on the global channel.

Define pitch controller you want to use , to be excluded in COMBI mode !
For instance if you want timbre 3 to be excluded from SW2 controller when assigned to Sw2 mod then goto
Combi/timbre parameters/Midi Filter 3 and uncheck Enable Sw2 !
If you want timbre 3 to be excluded from +-X controller goto Combi/timbre parameters/Pitch/ and set Bend Range=0.

That's where I'm stuck. The programs are both AL1 EXi's. As far as I can tell there are no AMS controls to alter the pitch by octaves... Suggestions?

There is not the right way to do it ... you just have to assign OSC pitch value to a second controller , independently
of value of pitch bend , like sending a third specific value to an AMS that indeed doesn't exist in OSC interface of AL-1 !
So ... try to follow an advanced trick I use for that as also an old dude in sound developing.

You can create your own tricky AMS send in order to alter only specific OSC pitch by a specific extra pitch value !
I'll use "SRM lead" as a good 4 OSC example , where you can create an indirectly +12 pitch change value AMS via
Sw1 controller only for EXi basic OSC (1 of 4).
Here is the workflow :
- Use a free LFO of EXi , like LFO4 with parameters :
waveform:square/-180 phase/ where click stop & key Sync boxes.
- Follow path EXi/OSC-Pitch/Pitch EG-Mod/ and set OSC2 Pitch Modulation/AMS2 to LFO4 (int=0)/
Intensity Mod AMS:Sw1 mod , intensity : +12:00 .
- Set Common controller Sw1 to Sw1 mod.

When this PROG is applied in COMBI and controller Sw1 is set at Sw1 mod , then it works exactly as in PROGR mode !
Remember that I'm under OS 2.12 (v3 isn't ready yet for me) , and bypass all your COMBI IFX in case of any controller conflict.

Hope this can help !

--- EDIT ---
Your request finally will be resolved in the following way !
- SET PROGR Common Sw2 to Sw2 mod (not to local "octave")
- Use Above settings for LFO4 (or with common LFO)
- Set EXi 1/OSC-Pitch/Pitch common/LFO select LFO4 , AMS :Sw2 mod , intensity + or - 12:00 (or any value you want)
- Do the same for an existing EXi 2
- Set COMBI Sw2 controller to Sw2 mod
- Done ... Sw2 will vary by -/+ 12:00 value all OSC of your AL-1 program inside & outside PROGR mode !

Combining previous example methods (AMS1 & AMS2) you can achieve 3 extra pitch changes for every EXi.

[jimknopf]

I learn a lot just by watching this thread and having a close look at the patches: thanks to both enigmahack and Antony!

[HardSync]

Antony, is it really necessary to use a LFO for the octave change?* Wouldn't it be cleaner to assign SW2 Mod (CC#82) as the AMS source on the Pitch EG/Mod screen, and set the Intensity value to +12.00. If you want to affect both oscillators of an AL-1 EXi, then you can set it twice, once for each oscillator on this screen. If you're using two EXis in a program, then you can optionally set it again for the second Exi or not, depending on what you need.

(*I ask because I don't have a Kronos to specifically try out various edits. I can only refer to the manuals and my experience with how other Korg synths work (e.g. Korg M3). I presume SW2 Mod (CC#82) is available for both oscillators' AMS1 and AMS2 parameters. I don't see any advantage using the Intensity Mod AMS settings unless you want to further modify the original Intensity setting with a different controller, like a knob for instance. Am I missing something?)

The rest of the instructions seem OK to me, which is what I was saying to do in my first post in this topic -- I just didn't go into specifics. Sorry, I probably should have done so.

[AntonySharmman]

is it really necessary to use a LFO for the octave change?* Wouldn't it be cleaner to assign SW2 Mod (CC#82) as the AMS source on the Pitch EG/Mod screen, and set the Intensity value to +12.00.]

Very correct observation ... yes it seems feasible but in my SRM Lead example I already use AMS slot for PEG , and also
this is also a good example/tutorial of switching routines , creating alternative AMS functions !
Note that theoretically there are many solutions to achieve that !

EDIT
I tried CC#82 , that should be applied to all 4 OSC , but I remarked timbre change of main OSC when transposed
though Sw2 was not involved at all in filtering/EG/Amp , and also ring modulator had changed behavior
so for me LFO trick of 1-2 adjustments prevails as the best solution !
It seems that I had serious reasons to apply this trick , that I don't even remember anymore

[enigmahack]

Thanks both of you for all of your help. Actually it was simply by setting the EG perimeter on EG2 that I was able to change the pitch. That was precisely the step I was missing and was able to get it to work.

Thanks!

[AntonySharmman]

By the way of investigating enigmahack requests , I've modified a lead program of mine with similar functionality
that might be useful as tutorial or lead sound to some of you , also this one uses AMS amp smooth Y balance between main
sound and harmonics with no IFX involvement to achieve that.
This sound is called "SRM Hard Lead" , it's a standalone PROGR with Guitars FXs and can be loaded at any EXi program slot.

Downloading Link of PCG v.2.12
http://www.mediafire.com/download/ga8by ... d_Lead.PCG

[jimknopf]

Thanks Antony!

As I said, I learn a lot from following these threads and from having a closer look at the patches.

[jeremykeys]

A lead sound that I've always liked is Derek Sherinians. Maybe one day somebody will nail it.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kv4oqiCh-lw

At about 3:45 you can hear it.
I've tried to incorperate aspects of both his and Jordans lead sound into one of my own. I can't say I have it really happening but if and when I truly get it to where I want it, I'll put it up here.

[enigmahack]

A lead sound that I've always liked is Derek Sherinians. Maybe one day somebody will nail it.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kv4oqiCh-lw

At about 3:45 you can hear it.
I've tried to incorperate aspects of both his and Jordans lead sound into one of my own. I can't say I have it really happening but if and when I truly get it to where I want it, I'll put it up here.

I've got a thread where people request sounds and I try and make them.

If you want, I'll add it to my list of "things to do" and see what I can come up with.

[jeremykeys]

As far as I know it's a modified old Korg Trinity sound that was called Monster Lead. The version that I use is from something that I found years ago online and basically copied into my Trton Pro x and then copied into my Kronos.

[enigmahack]

As far as I know it's a modified old Korg Trinity sound that was called Monster Lead. The version that I use is from something that I found years ago online and basically copied into my Trton Pro x and then copied into my Kronos.

Bingo.
2 Osc's - Saw and Pulse 33% set through the Hi-Gain/Wah effect. MOSS originally added the feedback, but Combi mode works just fine for doing the same thing with a Sine layer.

I'm working on my version of it off and on, when it's done I'll toss it up online here