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I am still looking for the perfect DAW, to use in combination with Kronos and mu VSTs... some time ago i changed from Windows to Mac.. And i am not going back anytime soon. Mac just works flawlessly.. Rockstable, fast and latency free.. On top of that, you can connect several different audio sources to the audio device at the same time..

I have been mostly using ableton,(extended trial) and i recently tested Bitwig.. I really like the workflow of bitwig beter then Ableton, yet ableton has M4L and a huge user community being very friendly and creating free stuff..

And then there are Mainstage and logic, which i both own, and like very much however, they are not fully integrated, and mostly rewire the DAW trough Mainstage... If apple only integrated both programs into a single client and added a mode for clip launching, then it would be the perfect tool and i would have no need for ableton or Bitwig..

Now i am in doubt, continuing with Logic and just using markers to set up my backingtracks... Or spending money and buying Ableton or Bitwig... Ableton including M4L is quite expensive, while bitwig is a lot cheaper and quickly growing in functionallity

I am aiming to use the DAW to comtroll Kronos, and use Kronos to controll the DAW.. More like a live tool then as a recording tool.

So which DAW are you using?

I like logic but I am not a power user. I am working through the Apple certified training on it and have a subscription to mac pro videos. I have found there is so much more I never knew of in logic I still don't have my head wrapped around it and it will take me years. But if you dig a bit you may find Logic does more then you think. Sorry I couldn't help more I still just lack the knowledge. I do think dollar wise it is a great bang for the buck but you already have it so that is a non issue. i would say google check some logic specific sites and tutorials before investing big bucks into something else. I am the type who like to save cash when I can but I am also curious what Logic will offer now that it has their new acquisition.


Do you know how to write scripts? I think their is even more power if you do. I need to learn this as well!

I think it's pretty hard to beat Logic in the value for money department, and for serious recording and production. Live is a LOT more suited for live work though. I use Sonar and Live both for different things. Live is an instrument disguised as a DAW. I don't regret shelling out for both. Haven't used Bitwig though.

Having the displeasure of using lots of different DAWS on both OS X and Windows Logic X has to be the way to go if you are using a Mac, it's cheap as chips, works well, has loads of functionality and the included plugins are good.

BobTheDog wrote:Having the displeasure of using lots of different DAWS on both OS X and Windows Logic X has to be the way to go if you are using a Mac, it's cheap as chips, works well, has loads of functionality and the included plugins are good.

Its got everything.. Except clip launching...

Is it for live use or just because you like working with the clip view?

Are your clips midi? If so you can use Logics Touch Tracks: https://support.apple.com/kb/PH13276?locale=en_US not quite clip launching but can be pretty useful to trigger things.

If you really like the clip grid aproach then Live and Bigwig are good, Bitwig 2 will have a M4L type thingy in it.

I must admit for messing around I always head for Live before Bitwig.

Recent updates have improved Bitwig greatly but it confuses me slightly.

Fwiw I love Ableton as it can be very simple on one level but deep if you want to delve in. For any audio work it's brilliant and midi has become better.

Sound libraries are very good and many are free. It's inspiring and as many have said since its release its more like an instrument in its own right.

Good luck
Steve

I have a maschine as well and everyone seems to love ableton and maschine combined. I have a hard time wrapping my head around scene and patterns probably why I have never invested in it. Is everything in ableton like that as well or is it capable of linear recording?

It sure seems like there are a lot of capable DAWS out these days! That is a good thing, right? I don't know a lot about moving projects from one DAW to another but if that is a possibility it might be worth considering before you decide. I could be wrong it may be simple as pie to move between DAWS I honestly don't know.

I really like Maschine for its sounds, beat building, modifying sounds/samples on the fly etc.
I have yet to make a complete song in it! Ableton is a LOT better like that. Its scene/pattern view gives you a waaaayyy better overview (to me) and yes, hitting the tab key switches instantly to linear recording. You can drag and drop audio and midi back and forth between the two modes, or record a performance using scenes and patterns into the linear mode. It's a great way to experiment with song sections and build your song.
EDIT:
Bertotti, my workflow with Maschine generally consists of building a beat using the built in pattern recording, browsing kits and sounds as needed and modifying sounds, and them dragging the whole thing as an audio loop into my DAW, so I can position it and make breaks etc. Then I mute Maschine. That way I can always go back if I decide to split kick/snare/hats or modify the pattern, but it works fast enough that creativity isn't interrupted. For me, it's a really comfortable workflow. I've also set up Maschine to work linearly within the DAW (using DAW midi tracks) but you lose a lot of what makes Maschine beat building so nice (loop recording, browsing sounds while running, etc.)

Ah that is what I thought about Ableton and it really makes me want to try it but for what I do recording wise it just doesn't pay yet. I have been here awhile but came in a complete newb to music. I love learning from you all though! Ableton isn't cheap which was the second reason I went with Logic. I always hope they will implement some of the scenes patterns approach but like I mentioned before it is hard for me to wrap my head around. I should just put away everything for a couple months and dig into maschine to learn it better. I only use it for beats but it is possible to do a whole lot more.

How about the moving projects from one daw to another? Is that something the OP should consider before making a choice? I know the live vs studio thing is a major consideration as well.
Thanks!

Bertotti wrote:Ah that is what I thought about Ableton and it really makes me want to try it but for what I do recording wise it just doesn't pay yet. I have been here awhile but came in a complete new to music. I love learning for you all though! Ableton isn't cheap which was the second reason I went with Logic. I always hope they will implement some of the scenes patterns approach but like I mentioned before it is hard for me to wrap my head around. I should just put away everything for a couple months and dig into maschine to learn it better. I only use it for beats but it is possible to do a whole lot more.

Thats what my first tought was, if they only added Clips and scenes to Logic and have mainsstage fully integrated with it, it would be a perfect tool. However, you never know when and if that is going to happen.

Bertotti wrote: How about the moving projects from one daw to another? Is that something the OP should consider before making a choice? I know the live vs studio thing is a major consideration as well.
Thanks!

All my important stuff from the past is on a windows machine in Cubase 7. Never really tought about moving those projects, as they are all still there. I dont think i will recreate old projects, but i will be reusing parts of it. And moving midi parts or pieces of audio on itselves is not that hard.



I think i will stick with logic and mainstage, rewired, mainstage allows a lot of controll over logic using applescript(which however is not automated and is a lot of work), i started making templates in mainstage for that. Like a template for controlling Logic by calling the markers. Or track stacks. And mainstage itselves has a looper, which can be used for funny things.

Its enough to keep me busy till my delayed Kronos arives in June..

I don't know how well Cubase handles OMF but I've used it successfully between Logic and Sonar. Export in one and load in the other. It works best if you freeze tracks and don't have complicated things like two hundred comps on a track etc.
Also I think there's a size limit, 2GB or 4GB or something. So there are some caveats, but when it does work it works well and it could save you a lot of work.

I don't see that a true clip/session mode will ever be implemented in Logic. Obviously I can't see into the future. But Ableton seems built from the ground up around it. Sonar has a matrix mode that may do enough for your specific needs, but it can't touch Ableton when core workflow is considered. I think Live is still pretty unchallenged in this area. If you work at a music school or study at one you could possibly get an educational discount. Saves something like 50 percent IIRC. Also, if you mainly need a well working session view, perhaps a free Live Lite license would do? Obviously you wouldn't get all the goodies but it may be enough in a performance situation?

SanderXpander wrote:I don't know how well Cubase handles OMF but I've used it successfully between Logic and Sonar. Export in one and load in the other. It works best if you freeze tracks and don't have complicated things like two hundred comps on a track etc.
Also I think there's a size limit, 2GB or 4GB or something. So there are some caveats, but when it does work it works well and it could save you a lot of work.

I don't see that a true clip/session mode will ever be implemented in Logic. Obviously I can't see into the future. But Ableton seems built from the ground up around it. Sonar has a matrix mode that may do enough for your specific needs, but it can't touch Ableton when core workflow is considered. I think Live is still pretty unchallenged in this area. If you work at a music school or study at one you could possibly get an educational discount. Saves something like 50 percent IIRC. Also, if you mainly need a well working session view, perhaps a free Live Lite license would do? Obviously you wouldn't get all the goodies but it may be enough in a performance situation?

It certainly is an option to use live lite and rewire it trough logic... or even to mainstage... however, i am trying to step away from using 4 DAWs instead of a single 1, as i have been doing since i got my mac.

I am looking into an educational version, since i am a teacher however..

You can host softsynths in Live too and change them per scene, there would be no need for MainStage or Logic. It's just a bit less geared for that so the set up is less intuitive and more work. And I actually don't know if Live Lite would be too limiting in that respect, I haven't used it much in this fashion. If you're getting an educational version, that would be worth investigating though!

You have to get a copy of your contract or a statement of your employer and make an argument that you are teaching anything related to music or music tech (or at least I did). I think they validate the EDU status AFTER purchase, in my case I used the trial period to bridge the gap. But their support guys are quite helpful so just mail them.

I think Logic is awesome with the Kronos. With some work in the environment they can do amazing things together!