Whats missing in KRONOS..

Akos Janca · Post by **Akos Janca** » Mon Feb 28, 2011 6:36 pm

Kronos filesystem suggestions for Korg R&D

IDEA #1 - EASIER PROGRAM ACCESS

Observation:
Kronos will have even more engines than OASYS has. A newbie would need a lot of time just to try the outstanding sonic possibilities. With the current filesystem to learn & compare ALL sounds is not easy. And after creating our own optimized sound library is a pain.

It's easier and quicker to find the appropriate Program from on-board (already loaded) ones - when making arrangements with the built-in sequencer or when building Combis for example - than to select a Program from different banks on the SSD.

Suggestion:
It would be good to have more Program slots in memory - as we all know. Or if not, then to be able to preview the Programs without loading (= playing manually or assigning them to existing song tracks) in ALL situations, especially while the built-in sequencer is running.

IDEA #2 - LIBRARIAN

Observation:
Since different synth engines still can produce similar category sounds ("basses" for example) it would be the best to load all available basses (also from all banks on SSD) at once to Kronos, then to study and compare them until we can decide which are our favorites.

Users will have to check the sounds by categories (to know all pianos, strings, etc.) to be able to choose and save the favorites somewhere for easy access. Now this requires an enormous amount of time and practically cannot be completed without pen & paper or a spreadsheet sw.

Suggestion:
A good librarian software (that can directly edit banks on SSD, too) is essential to help users making their own sound collections. ((Daz saved our lives with his program.))

IDEA #3 - MIXED ENGINES IN A BANK

Observation:
For own sound organization it's also important to remember which engine is used for a particular sound because one bank cannot contain sounds from different engines. In some cases - also because of having limited number of Program slots in a bank and in the whole memory - this makes the needed sound organization impossible for the user.

Suggestion:
The restriction of assigning whole Program banks to particular synth engines should be removed. Users should be able to store all types of Programs in the same bank. (I guess it's not gonna happen soon but noted.)

IDEA #4 - INFO ABOUT PROGRAM REFERENCES IN COMBIS

Observation:
Editing Programs is dangerous, rearranging them is very difficult. Combis are using Programs by slot numbers. To initialize or move a Program to another slot can involuntarily change one or more Combis, too. There is no warning or info about it from the system to users. Now it requires manual checking of all Combis one by one on the OASYS' interface. (Remember the tactile switches...?

) (I also wonder how the Producer order is created without altering the factory Combis - manually with a spreadsheet?)

Suggestions:
It would be essential to know which Combis are using which Programs.

a) The "In Combi" tab
The system should show: in which Combi(s) the currently selected Program is used. For example on an additional tab on main Program page:

<img src="https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/_tG_1 ... isTab1.png" height="492" width="654">

Please note also the sorting mode radio buttons at the bottom:

<img src="https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/_tG_1 ... isTab2.png" height="492" width="654">

b) Save warning
It would be also elegant to send a warning - before the user confirms saving of the currently selected Program - about which Combi(s) would be affected. In the Write Program dialog box.

c) VNL additions
Based on the above the Voice Name List documentation should contain:
• a big table with all Combis and their related Programs
• info at each Program names like "used in the following Combis: [slot] [name]…" It's different in PRELOAD and PRODUCER setups so both should be detailed in VNL.

I think the above can be achieved relatively easily still would improve the usability of KRONOS (OASYS) system significantly.

Best regards,
Akos

cello · Post by **cello** » Mon Feb 28, 2011 7:23 pm

Great post Akos! And great thinking too.

It's the one thing that gives me the most headaches about the O - the filing. The K will be the same.

It's one thing to learn all the synthesis possibilities (which takes a huge amount of time! - not a complaint in case Dan is reading... that's a compliment as to the amount of editable parameters there are). So whilst we can do a huge amount to create and edit sounds, there is very little we can do to manage our sounds the way we, the users, would like - which could be different for everyone!

Thanks for taking the time to think about this Akos - it deserves that Korg think about it too!

Akos Janca · Post by **Akos Janca** » Mon Feb 28, 2011 7:26 pm

Thank you very much, Neil.

Randelph · Post by **Randelph** » Mon Feb 28, 2011 8:09 pm

Yes, exclnt post Akos-

In order to make a keyboard "mine", I spend ridiculous amounts of time auditioning sounds within a category so I can compare like sounds I like the best. A Librarian is essential, and the various things you mentioned also helps a great deal.

Combis: is the patch info being read off the SSD? I don't mean the samples themselves (I know some of them are, some of them are loaded into ROM), I mean the Program and Combi patch parameters. The reason I ask is that with so much available space now, why not allow Programs to live within Combis in their own right, and not just something that you can apply offset values to a limited number of parameters? That way you're no longer dependent on the original Program staying in its slot.'

Randy

nowtime · Post by **nowtime** » Tue Mar 01, 2011 12:09 am

Akos Janca wrote:... With the current filesystem to learn & compare ALL sounds is not easy. And after creating our own optimized sound library is a pain.

...Users will have to check the sounds by categories (to know all pianos, strings, etc.) to be able to choose and save the favorites somewhere for easy access. Now this requires an enormous amount of time and practically cannot be completed without pen & paper or a spreadsheet sw.

...In some cases - also because of having limited number of Program slots in a bank and in the whole memory - this makes the needed sound organization impossible for the user.

...Editing Programs is dangerous, rearranging them is very difficult. Combis are using Programs by slot numbers. To initialize or move a Program to another slot can involuntarily change one or more Combis, too. There is no warning or info about it from the system to users. Now it requires manual checking of all Combis one by one on the OASYS' interface. Best regards,
Akos

I can't believe I'm reading this about the Kronos! Surely this is some old post about an ancient keyboard from the stone ages. My eyes deceive me I'm sure. Let me wipe them...

So what I'm understanding is that, except for the brilliant Set List Mode, library organization on Korgs are still in the Dark Ages? I thought the Kronos comes with a software editor. Surely it is all drag and drop, copy/paste.

Melodialworks Music · Tue Mar 01, 2011 12:58 am

Many years ago I owned the O1/W pro X. The only keyboard that I regretting selling, in order to acquire something new, BTW. It too had the limitation of edit a program, and screw up the combi syndrome. I too, would have thought by now, that scenario would be history.

The strange thing is that we are encouraged to make our own sounds, and for a lot of us, that means tweaking presets. Which yes, IS programming, albeit very basic programming.

This file system environment actually discourages this.

Shakil · Post by **Shakil** » Tue Mar 01, 2011 1:03 am

I think the solution to all this problem is to save 16 complete programs for each combis and song (like in Roland workstations for Songs).

Combi and Song should have their own copy of the program within. This way if I customize the program for a Combi or Song, it won't affect anything else.

This will also facilitate the ability to edit programs from within the Combi and Song mode.

Randelph · Post by **Randelph** » Tue Mar 01, 2011 1:15 am

From Dan:

... the KRONOS editor has nothing in common with the M3 Editor. It has strong librarian functionality, for instance.

So at least that part of the questions/desires that Akos raises has a good outcome!

Randy

Akos Janca · Post by **Akos Janca** » Tue Mar 01, 2011 2:07 am

Please don't misunderstand me, as an experienced user I wanted to help not criticize. Now we need paper & pencil because there are so many good and usable sounds (we are talking about thousands!) that cannot be accessed at once to freely compare all of them. No surprise, they are over the limits of ANY synth OS - ancient or not.

I just hope Korg can develop the filesystem to give direct preview access to all sounds - also by categories - on the SSD, in some important situations including running SEQ mode. That would be excellent and maybe possible now.

For me the most important thing is the sound. My OASYS is brilliant and breathtaking. Still is, for me, after years. Today. So, Kronos users: prepare to be amazed.

PS. Thank you very much for the compliments, anyway. The independent storage of Programs in Combis could be a good solution for one of the issues.

Melodialworks Music · Post by **Melodialworks Music** » Tue Mar 01, 2011 2:39 am

Akos Janca wrote:
For me the most important thing is the sound. My OASYS is brilliant and breathtaking. Still is, for me, after years. Today. So, Kronos users: prepare to be amazed.

It is so wonderful to read that. Thank you. (And yes, for me too, the sound is #1)

rrricky rrrecordo · Post by **rrricky rrrecordo** » Tue Mar 01, 2011 2:44 am

I think we Trinity owners have the same feeling about our instruments... 18 years of brilliant pristine sonic sparkle and counting... and MOSS

Our Trinities are your OASYS' great grandpappies after all...

Longevity is in the Korg family genes for sure... the X5DR, Wavestation and M1REX still pull their weight in my studio rack all these years on. Low budget menageries have their merits

Sina172 · Post by **Sina172** » Tue Mar 01, 2011 3:56 am

vladimotor · Post by **vladimotor** » Tue Mar 01, 2011 5:05 pm

MOSS is the main thing that is missing.

danatkorg · Post by **danatkorg** » Tue Mar 01, 2011 9:00 pm

Thanks for your comments, Akos. One point:

Akos Janca wrote:
IDEA #3 - MIXED ENGINES IN A BANK

Observation:
For own sound organization it's also important to remember which engine is used for a particular sound because one bank cannot contain sounds from different engines. In some cases - also because of having limited number of Program slots in a bank and in the whole memory - this makes the needed sound organization impossible for the user.

Suggestion:
The restriction of assigning whole Program banks to particular synth engines should be removed. Users should be able to store all types of Programs in the same bank. (I guess it's not gonna happen soon but noted.)

One note: the restriction is between EXi and HD-1 banks, rather than between individual engines. So, you can mix all 8 EXi engines together in one bank, or within a Program for that matter; you just can't mix them with the ninth, the HD-1.

As we've talked about before, I think of the separation between EXi and HD-1 as an anachronism. I'm sorry that it's still that way.

ozy · Post by **ozy** » Tue Mar 01, 2011 9:10 pm

nowtime wrote:Surely it is all drag and drop, copy/paste.

Sure

copy & paste

drag

and drop