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jeebustrain
Platinum Member
Joined: 24 Jan 2011
Posts: 1284
Location: In a Roger Dean painting
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 Posted: Thu Sep 15, 2011 4:39 pm Post subject: this is rapidly turning into an obsession |
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so I'm looking at auditioning for a new band and I decided to use it as a perfect excuse to really dive into the guts of this thing. It's a pop/ top40 cover band with a female singer - so lots of things like Pink, Katy Perry, Madonna, etc... Awful music, but a crap-ton of synth parts and I've made it my mission to try and recreate some of this stuff as close as possible (sequences, arps, everything). It's a load of work, but I'm having a lot of fun. I think I've gotten less sleep in the last week than I have in a long time - I'm up till almost 1:30 every night just experimenting with things.
When I got my Fusion, I spent a ton of time learning it inside and out because it was such a deep board. The Kronos is 10x that.... My son is going to be with his mom for the next 4 full days and I'll probably end up spending almost every waking moment in my office, hunched over the LCD.
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::: Korg Kronos 88 ::: Alesis Fusion 8HD ::: Kurzweil PC361 ::: Roland V-Synth ::: DSI Prophet 12 ::: DSI OB-6 ::: Korg Prophecy ::: Moog Micromoog ::: Yamaha CP-30 ::: Alesis Andromeda ::: Moog Sub37 ::: Sequential Prophet 600 ::: Korg MS2000BR ::: GSI Burn :::
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michelkeijzers
Approved Merchant
Joined: 08 Feb 2007
Posts: 9113
Location: Netherlands
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| Posted: Thu Sep 15, 2011 4:49 pm Post subject: |
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Spending time with such a goal is a very good way to learn an instrument.
I also used to try to recreate sounds perfectly but nowadays if I find a sound that fits too, then it's ok. Sometimes I even use sounds that are completely different (or play something that is not original, either because I can't hear exactly what's played so I make an own version, or thinking of a new line or notes if I think it adds to the song). However, using (factory) patches is definitely NOT the best way to learn an instrument.
Good luck with the audition.
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Developer of the free PCG file managing application for most Korg workstations: PCG Tools, see https://www.kronoshaven.com/pcgtools/ |
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ScoobyDoo555
Platinum Member
Joined: 12 Jan 2008
Posts: 840
Location: Herefordshire, UK
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| Posted: Thu Sep 15, 2011 5:20 pm Post subject: |
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This is how I've got to grips with mine.
Got it on the Thursday, had a gig the week later. Had 7 days to transfer EVERYTHING from Apple Mainstage/Kurzweil K2000 and XP30 over to Kronos.
Great fun, and I'm pretty fluid with the machine now.
Been a rock too.
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Yamaha SY77 & KX88, SSL Nucleus, Korg Kronos 61, Wavestation A/D, Access Virus B, Roland XP30, DeepMind12D, System 1m, V-Synth XT, Focusrite Red16Line, Unitor 8, Akai S3000 XL, Alesis Quadraverb+, Focal Shape Twins, Full fat iMac, Logic Pro X, ProTools 2021, loadsa plugins.
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Randelph
Platinum Member
Joined: 18 Oct 2008
Posts: 604
Location: San Francisco, CA
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| Posted: Thu Sep 15, 2011 5:34 pm Post subject: |
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Yeah, nothing like a good project to kick start the learning process! Been up to the same myself
So what are some of your methods of dissecting a song- you just have an audio recording set on loop? I imagine having the onboard 16 track recorder would be very handy for such- just load the song into it and try to replicate what your hearing-
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Keyboards: Kawai ES920 / Casio CT-X5000
Instruments: Keys / Alto Recorder and Melodica |
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jeebustrain
Platinum Member
Joined: 24 Jan 2011
Posts: 1284
Location: In a Roger Dean painting
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| Posted: Thu Sep 15, 2011 6:10 pm Post subject: |
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| Randelph wrote: | Yeah, nothing like a good project to kick start the learning process! Been up to the same myself
So what are some of your methods of dissecting a song- you just have an audio recording set on loop? I imagine having the onboard 16 track recorder would be very handy for such- just load the song into it and try to replicate what your hearing- |
nothing that elaborate - I'm basically playing the song from an MP3 (or even something like youtube if I don't have it) and walk through it section by section. If I can't isolate the sounds by ear on my monitor speakers (sometimes playing with the panning), I'll use headphones.
The problem (one of) with a lot of the pop music these days is that the vocals are so hot in the mix and the music is so squashed dynamically that it's sometimes hard to discern. The classic (80's stuff) is a lot easier to figure out because besides it breathing more, lots of time you can actually find stuff on the internet (Wikipedia, etc...) that tells what synths they actually used on some of the songs. I'm a vintage nut, so a lot of times, it gives me a much better sonic picture if I know that the particular sound was played with an OBX as opposed to a Prophet or something.
The cool thing about the PolySix and the MS20 is that they are so easy to get around, that you can usually dial something up pretty quickly. AL-1 on the other hand, is a whole different beast - I'm still trying to wrap my head around that in regards to routing. I know it'll come with time though.
For me, the most time consuming part is actually just figuring out how I want the splits/layers to be set up and making sure I remember where everything is (the set list notes are a dream for that). I've always liked playing with an 88 key controller because I can set several split points across the octaves (even more if you have a second board) and can usually get away with getting most of the sounds for a song within a single Combi.
_________________
::: Korg Kronos 88 ::: Alesis Fusion 8HD ::: Kurzweil PC361 ::: Roland V-Synth ::: DSI Prophet 12 ::: DSI OB-6 ::: Korg Prophecy ::: Moog Micromoog ::: Yamaha CP-30 ::: Alesis Andromeda ::: Moog Sub37 ::: Sequential Prophet 600 ::: Korg MS2000BR ::: GSI Burn :::
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michelkeijzers
Approved Merchant
Joined: 08 Feb 2007
Posts: 9113
Location: Netherlands
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| Posted: Thu Sep 15, 2011 6:45 pm Post subject: |
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| jeebustrain wrote: | | Randelph wrote: | Yeah, nothing like a good project to kick start the learning process! Been up to the same myself
So what are some of your methods of dissecting a song- you just have an audio recording set on loop? I imagine having the onboard 16 track recorder would be very handy for such- just load the song into it and try to replicate what your hearing- |
nothing that elaborate - I'm basically playing the song from an MP3 (or even something like youtube if I don't have it) and walk through it section by section. If I can't isolate the sounds by ear on my monitor speakers (sometimes playing with the panning), I'll use headphones.
The problem (one of) with a lot of the pop music these days is that the vocals are so hot in the mix and the music is so squashed dynamically that it's sometimes hard to discern. The classic (80's stuff) is a lot easier to figure out because besides it breathing more, lots of time you can actually find stuff on the internet (Wikipedia, etc...) that tells what synths they actually used on some of the songs. I'm a vintage nut, so a lot of times, it gives me a much better sonic picture if I know that the particular sound was played with an OBX as opposed to a Prophet or something.
The cool thing about the PolySix and the MS20 is that they are so easy to get around, that you can usually dial something up pretty quickly. AL-1 on the other hand, is a whole different beast - I'm still trying to wrap my head around that in regards to routing. I know it'll come with time though.
For me, the most time consuming part is actually just figuring out how I want the splits/layers to be set up and making sure I remember where everything is (the set list notes are a dream for that). I've always liked playing with an 88 key controller because I can set several split points across the octaves (even more if you have a second board) and can usually get away with getting most of the sounds for a song within a single Combi. |
For editing names and descriptions you can use my app.
I mostly do splits on on C notes when possible, so at least I only have to remember the 'octaves'. And I use 2 keyboards so it helps avoid splitting too (I'm not using that many sounds in one song, most is 5 or so).
You are completely right about pop music, about the breathing.
_________________
Developer of the free PCG file managing application for most Korg workstations: PCG Tools, see https://www.kronoshaven.com/pcgtools/ |
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Fred S
Junior Member
Joined: 03 Sep 2011
Posts: 90
Location: Northern California
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| Posted: Thu Sep 15, 2011 9:04 pm Post subject: |
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Doing the same here...finding/making all the patches from my S90es to the Kronos. We play Journey, so I've spent most of my time working on the pianos. And, I haven't figured out a good solution for the intro/outro to Sherrie. But, I'll get there  .
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Yamaha S90es, Hammond XK-1, Kronos 88, Gibson Les Paul, American Deluxe Strat, Taylor accoustic, Vox amp, Motion Sound Pro 145, KC-550s x2, a bunch of plugins, and a Kawai grand. |
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drchris
Full Member
Joined: 21 May 2011
Posts: 178
Location: Memphis, TN
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| Posted: Thu Sep 15, 2011 9:18 pm Post subject: |
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| Fred S wrote: | | Doing the same here...finding/making all the patches from my S90es to the Kronos. We play Journey, so I've spent most of my time working on the pianos. And, I haven't figured out a good solution for the intro/outro to Sherrie. But, I'll get there . |
We saw Journey and Foreigner last night here in Memphis. (Foreigner did an outstanding job with taking their old songs and making them much more modern with some nice synth / pad additions. Couldn't see what board he was playing, however.) Journey relied on a real grand piano for all of the piano sounds. Frankly, I found myself wishing they would switch to something else (a Kronos would be nice of course). The mic'ed grand was rather harshly mixed. I'm sure they wanted much of their classic piano stuff to penetrate well, but it was overbearing especially in the upper registers. Made me think back to the various discussions about piano sounds and mixes for live play here.
Sorry to veer off topic, but you mentioned them! grin...
Chris
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Kronos 88 # 000135
Ableton Live / AKAI APC40 / AKAI MPK49 |
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Fred S
Junior Member
Joined: 03 Sep 2011
Posts: 90
Location: Northern California
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| Posted: Thu Sep 15, 2011 10:59 pm Post subject: |
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Hey Chris, I'm surprised they didn't do a better job. Should be way zoned in by now. I've heard a mic'ed grand in concert several times and most of the time they sound good to great. Sometimes sound guys just get it wrong.
Interestingly (and sorta funny) the last time I saw Foreigner (2 years ago), they got the sound wrong on the guitar. The volume on the leads completely overpowered the rest of the sound and was close to unbearable for the audience. Ruined it for me. On the same bill, on the other hand, Styx had their sound mixed perfectly to my ears.
Hard to understand how mistakes get made at the level.
_________________
Yamaha S90es, Hammond XK-1, Kronos 88, Gibson Les Paul, American Deluxe Strat, Taylor accoustic, Vox amp, Motion Sound Pro 145, KC-550s x2, a bunch of plugins, and a Kawai grand. |
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jeebustrain
Platinum Member
Joined: 24 Jan 2011
Posts: 1284
Location: In a Roger Dean painting
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| Posted: Fri Sep 16, 2011 7:04 pm Post subject: |
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I forgot the other part of this thing.
You remember that win a Kronos contest that Korg did - The winning song "what would I do for a Kronos" by that dude in Chicago - that song goes over and over in my head pretty much all day at work.
I probably should see someone about this.
_________________
::: Korg Kronos 88 ::: Alesis Fusion 8HD ::: Kurzweil PC361 ::: Roland V-Synth ::: DSI Prophet 12 ::: DSI OB-6 ::: Korg Prophecy ::: Moog Micromoog ::: Yamaha CP-30 ::: Alesis Andromeda ::: Moog Sub37 ::: Sequential Prophet 600 ::: Korg MS2000BR ::: GSI Burn :::
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