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rob314159
Full Member
Joined: 05 Mar 2007
Posts: 249
Location: Virginia, US
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 Posted: Wed Jan 11, 2012 1:28 pm Post subject: System Startup Issue - Another Data Point |
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I have experienced the system startup issue where the Kronos will boot partway and then give a failure error saying to disconnect any USB devices and restart. It has only happened twice to me, BUT, in both cases I have had a Yamaha S80 connected via MIDI to the Kronos, and I was playing on the Yamaha at the time.
When I just turn on the Kronos and let it sit while it boots, I've never experienced the issue.
I don't know how useful this information is, but it's another data point to add to the mix. |
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michelkeijzers
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Joined: 08 Feb 2007
Posts: 9113
Location: Netherlands
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| Posted: Wed Jan 11, 2012 1:44 pm Post subject: |
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Does the Yamaha behave like a thumdrive? (i.e. has a floppy or other USB memory that can also be addressed on a computer for example?)
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Developer of the free PCG file managing application for most Korg workstations: PCG Tools, see https://www.kronoshaven.com/pcgtools/ |
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rob314159
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Joined: 05 Mar 2007
Posts: 249
Location: Virginia, US
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| Posted: Wed Jan 11, 2012 1:50 pm Post subject: |
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| The Yamaha does have a SmartMedia card slot. |
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michelkeijzers
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Location: Netherlands
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| Posted: Wed Jan 11, 2012 1:59 pm Post subject: |
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In theory that slot could be routed through USB so the Kronos tries to access it.
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kronoSphere
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Joined: 04 Jan 2012
Posts: 698
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| Posted: Wed Jan 11, 2012 2:31 pm Post subject: |
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Hummm...  it is never a good thing to play and send midi data to a musical keyboard that is loading its O.S.
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rob314159
Full Member
Joined: 05 Mar 2007
Posts: 249
Location: Virginia, US
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| Posted: Wed Jan 11, 2012 2:40 pm Post subject: |
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| Apparently so, kronoSphere, I just hadn't really thought about it. Anyway, in case anyone else was getting an intermittent error on boot up, it could also be something along those lines of MIDI data coming in when Kronos isn't ready to handle it? (Obviously, there are other causes, but I just wanted to share my experience for those trying to diagnose their own issues). |
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michelkeijzers
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Joined: 08 Feb 2007
Posts: 9113
Location: Netherlands
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| Posted: Wed Jan 11, 2012 2:51 pm Post subject: |
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| kronoSphere wrote: | | Hummm... it is never a good thing to play and send midi data to a musical keyboard that is loading its O.S. |
Well if it would be implemented correctly, any musical keyboard should not listen to midi data UNTIL its OS has been loaded, then this would not be a problem.
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Developer of the free PCG file managing application for most Korg workstations: PCG Tools, see https://www.kronoshaven.com/pcgtools/ |
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Ksynth
Platinum Member
Joined: 01 Jun 2009
Posts: 1225
Location: Northern California, USA
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| Posted: Wed Jan 11, 2012 3:26 pm Post subject: Re: System Startup Issue - Another Data Point |
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| rob314159 wrote: | I have experienced the system startup issue where the Kronos will boot partway and then give a failure error saying to disconnect any USB devices and restart. It has only happened twice to me, BUT, in both cases I have had a Yamaha S80 connected via MIDI to the Kronos, and I was playing on the Yamaha at the time.
When I just turn on the Kronos and let it sit while it boots, I've never experienced the issue.
I don't know how useful this information is, but it's another data point to add to the mix. |
I had this happen too. Just two thumb drives connected and the Kronos spat the dummy. System failure. After removing them it restarted fine.
This did not happen with the M3 |
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michelkeijzers
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Joined: 08 Feb 2007
Posts: 9113
Location: Netherlands
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| Posted: Wed Jan 11, 2012 3:33 pm Post subject: Re: System Startup Issue - Another Data Point |
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| Ksynth wrote: | | rob314159 wrote: | I have experienced the system startup issue where the Kronos will boot partway and then give a failure error saying to disconnect any USB devices and restart. It has only happened twice to me, BUT, in both cases I have had a Yamaha S80 connected via MIDI to the Kronos, and I was playing on the Yamaha at the time.
When I just turn on the Kronos and let it sit while it boots, I've never experienced the issue.
I don't know how useful this information is, but it's another data point to add to the mix. |
I had this happen too. Just two thumb drives connected and the Kronos spat the dummy. System failure. After removing them it restarted fine.
This did not happen with the M3 |
I think it is fixed in OS1.5 but not sure ... on the other hand: the workaround work flawlessly.
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Developer of the free PCG file managing application for most Korg workstations: PCG Tools, see https://www.kronoshaven.com/pcgtools/ |
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Ksynth
Platinum Member
Joined: 01 Jun 2009
Posts: 1225
Location: Northern California, USA
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| Posted: Wed Jan 11, 2012 6:11 pm Post subject: Re: System Startup Issue - Another Data Point |
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| michelkeijzers wrote: | | Ksynth wrote: | | rob314159 wrote: | I have experienced the system startup issue where the Kronos will boot partway and then give a failure error saying to disconnect any USB devices and restart. It has only happened twice to me, BUT, in both cases I have had a Yamaha S80 connected via MIDI to the Kronos, and I was playing on the Yamaha at the time.
When I just turn on the Kronos and let it sit while it boots, I've never experienced the issue.
I don't know how useful this information is, but it's another data point to add to the mix. |
I had this happen too. Just two thumb drives connected and the Kronos spat the dummy. System failure. After removing them it restarted fine.
This did not happen with the M3 |
I think it is fixed in OS1.5 but not sure ... on the other hand: the workaround work flawlessly. |
Not fixed. I had 1.5 installed already. |
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michelkeijzers
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Joined: 08 Feb 2007
Posts: 9113
Location: Netherlands
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| Posted: Wed Jan 11, 2012 8:15 pm Post subject: Re: System Startup Issue - Another Data Point |
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| Ksynth wrote: | | michelkeijzers wrote: | | Ksynth wrote: | | rob314159 wrote: | I have experienced the system startup issue where the Kronos will boot partway and then give a failure error saying to disconnect any USB devices and restart. It has only happened twice to me, BUT, in both cases I have had a Yamaha S80 connected via MIDI to the Kronos, and I was playing on the Yamaha at the time.
When I just turn on the Kronos and let it sit while it boots, I've never experienced the issue.
I don't know how useful this information is, but it's another data point to add to the mix. |
I had this happen too. Just two thumb drives connected and the Kronos spat the dummy. System failure. After removing them it restarted fine.
This did not happen with the M3 |
I think it is fixed in OS1.5 but not sure ... on the other hand: the workaround work flawlessly. |
Not fixed. I had 1.5 installed already. |
Ok in that case use the workaround: just remove the thumbdrive(s) when booting.
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MarPabl
Platinum Member
Joined: 24 Sep 2011
Posts: 938
Location: MX
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| Posted: Thu Jan 12, 2012 2:52 am Post subject: Re: System Startup Issue - Another Data Point |
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| rob314159 wrote: | | I have experienced the system startup issue where the Kronos will boot partway and then give a failure error saying to disconnect any USB devices and restart. It has only happened twice to me, BUT, in both cases I have had a Yamaha S80 connected via MIDI to the Kronos, and I was playing on the Yamaha at the time. |
What I think is that this error can arise if you touch anything (keys, buttons, sliders, ribbon, etc.) on the Kronos while it's booting. Also, sending MIDI commands while Kronos is booting is just like touching anything, but remotely...
So this may be the cause of your issue and you better stop doing this, because in my case, the issue became pretty much persistent and stoped me to turn on my Kronos reliably
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michelkeijzers
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Joined: 08 Feb 2007
Posts: 9113
Location: Netherlands
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| Posted: Thu Jan 12, 2012 9:42 am Post subject: Re: System Startup Issue - Another Data Point |
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| MarPabl wrote: | | rob314159 wrote: | | I have experienced the system startup issue where the Kronos will boot partway and then give a failure error saying to disconnect any USB devices and restart. It has only happened twice to me, BUT, in both cases I have had a Yamaha S80 connected via MIDI to the Kronos, and I was playing on the Yamaha at the time. |
What I think is that this error can arise if you touch anything (keys, buttons, sliders, ribbon, etc.) on the Kronos while it's booting. Also, sending MIDI commands while Kronos is booting is just like touching anything, but remotely...
So this may be the cause of your issue and you better stop doing this, because in my case, the issue became pretty much persistent and stoped me to turn on my Kronos reliably |
Yes but even than it is a wrong design decision. A synth should only 'listen' for external messages (either from MIDI, USB or onboard controllers) until it has finished booting.
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Developer of the free PCG file managing application for most Korg workstations: PCG Tools, see https://www.kronoshaven.com/pcgtools/ |
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JPROBERTLA
Senior Member
Joined: 04 Jul 2011
Posts: 483
Location: New Orleans
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| Posted: Sat Jan 14, 2012 2:55 pm Post subject: |
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This is from a post I submitted a few days ago - similar situation and question.
I have had my K61 for almost 2 months and have had no problems. 1.5.0 came out the same day I got it so I installed it the next day. No problems before or since until this morning. During start up this morning it stopped at the very beginning and displayed start up failure remove USB medium. I did that and it started up immediately with no problems. The only thing different was that I had just used this thumb drive to download some PCG's right before I tried the first start up. This is the first time I tried a start up with a thumb drive connected right after removing it from my computer - just wondering if there may be a connection between doing a start up after disconnecting the thumb drive from another computer? Was this just coincidence or could there a connection?
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Kronos2-88, Behringer XR18, Turbosound IP2000 (x2), dbx DriveRack 260, KRK Rokit 8s, Mackie CFX16, Mackie SRM450(x2), Mackie SRS1500 (x2), BBE processors (x4), Roland VSR 880 (x2), Alto TS210, Alto TX10 (x3) and SoundForge |
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petem
Joined: 13 Dec 2011
Posts: 29
Location: Andover, UK
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| Posted: Sat Jan 14, 2012 3:56 pm Post subject: |
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| JPROBERTLA wrote: | | The only thing different was that I had just used this thumb drive to download some PCG's right before I tried the first start up. This is the first time I tried a start up with a thumb drive connected right after removing it from my computer - just wondering if there may be a connection between doing a start up after disconnecting the thumb drive from another computer? Was this just coincidence or could there a connection? |
I'm not quite sure what you're thinking - is it that if you use the thumb drive in the Kronos within a very short length of time after taking it out of your PC that this could cause a problem? If so, I'd have thought that's unlikely. It would require some mechanism where it made a difference how much time had elapsed since you took it out of the PC, and I can't think what that would be. I suppose there could be something to do with temperature if the thumb drive got very warm when stuck in your PC and normally had time to cool down before you plugged it into the Kronos but didn't have this time - but unless it was ridiculously hot I can't really see why that would make any difference. If you could transfer it in a small fraction of a second there might be an issue with the drive not having reset to its default state on being powered down after coming out of the PC, but I doubt you could transfer it quickly enough to do that even if you tried and the Kronos was already running.
On the other hand it could possibly have something to do with what you last did to it on the PC rather than how recently that was. If the filesystem on the thumb drive had somehow got corrupted for example, the Kronos might have trouble reading it. If that was the case, it most likely wouldn't be able to read the drive even if you plugged it back in once the Kronos was running, so that should be easy to check (you could also check the filesystem of the thumb drive while it's plugged into your PC).
If I had to take a guess from the various comments I've seen about USB and startup issues, it's more likely to be a problem where something in the Kronos USB initiallisation process during startup can fail when it's trying to negotiate with attached devices, hence the recommendation not to have anything plugged in at that point. It obviously doesn't fail every time with every kind of USB device or you'd never be able to attach a CD drive to run the boot disks when needed and some people have said they leave other USB devices attached all the time with no problems, but I suspect there's something which can sometimes fail when the right (wrong!) combination of circumstance arise. So if anyone hits a startup problem it's always worth removing all USB devices and trying again just in case.
Of course, if you ever have a problem caused by a dead RAM stick or similar, then it's not going to matter *what* you do with USB! |
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