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ccmacdon
Full Member
Joined: 28 Dec 2011
Posts: 171
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 Posted: Tue Feb 28, 2012 7:50 pm Post subject: |
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OK Dany no problem.. I did think your comments were directed at me, so thank you for the follow up note.
There has been a lot of buzz lately about reality of high fidelity/audiophile technology, and the fact is that there is a whole lot of BS going on.. extremely expensive products that make tremendous (and ridiculous) claims to increase fidelity, that have been proven to be entirely untrue, and unwarranted.
An article in the February SOS magazine by J G Harding "Does it sound better... or different?" talks about "confirmation bias" and it's worth the quick read.. often we think new and expensive technology makes things sound better, but in reality they just sound different. The article suggests that a whole lot of people are spending a whole lot of money to make something sound different (not necessarily better).
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Craig MacDonald |
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Sparker
Senior Member
Joined: 26 Feb 2009
Posts: 483
Location: Wales UK
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| Posted: Tue Feb 28, 2012 8:18 pm Post subject: |
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Craig: Good SoS article that - common sense ...
http://www.soundonsound.com/sos/feb12/articles/sounding-off-0212.htm
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Kronos 61 & KK KARMA / Triton Ex c/w MOSS and TR KARMA / MS2000 / Radias / Kaossilator Pro & Kaossilator / Korg Kontrol 49 / Nanopad / Novation Nova / Waldorf Blofeld
Line 6 Flextone XL / Line 6 POD XT / Roland V Bass / Ampeg Portabass & Cab / Assorted Guitars (no whammy bar) ... and a Fender Champ ... |
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Sina172
Platinum Member
Joined: 29 May 2007
Posts: 1194
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| Posted: Wed Feb 29, 2012 6:27 am Post subject: |
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| ccmacdon wrote: | | Sina172 wrote: | | ccmacdon wrote: | | Sina172 wrote: | | ccmacdon wrote: | Sina have you seriously lost your f-ing mind.. ?
Superb advice.. let's all go out and spend $100,000 so we can learn to hate MP3's just like you!!!
You clearly have more money than common sense my friend, or perhaps it's time to get your meds updated..
Thanks for the informative post. |
I don't appreciate the insult or the judgement, here.
But I LOVE my music and because I'm in a position to afford high-end audiophile equipment and I'm sorry if that bothers you! 
Sina |
Sina I'm glad that you love your music, and if you keep working hard at it, I bet that someday someone else might even get to hear it! But just be careful, because that someone may want to listen to it on their MP3 player.. Oh but your music is too good for the MP3 format, so unfortunately you may just be stuck listening to your music all by yourself. That's too bad. |
And I don't give a sh*t about the "real world." Society is SO f*cked up these days, that dealing with reality becomes too painful to deal with.
And the last time I had to deal with the real world, my whole life came to a halt and it took me over a year to get that life back and then some. You don't know me, nor do you know how much hell I went through to get to where I am today.
Soon I'm gonna be helping people beyond belief and I've got a few surprises that are not only gonna WOW not only THIS forum, but humanity in general. I'm gonna give back in ways people have never imagined. So if you think I'm selfish, think again, buddy. 
Sina |
Sina, I mean this sincerely.. GO SEE A DOCTOR RIGHT NOW and take a copy of your last post. You really need to talk to someone about all this. |
Back when my life got the point where I couldn't even live anymore, being completely dead inside and emotionless, not knowing who I even was anymore, I did seek help. It took me 3 YEARS (since 2008) to finally find what I was looking for. 2009 pushed my limits and tolerance to whole new level. I was angry, I was depressed, had a LOT of resentment. I couldn't even live anymore. The worst thing that could've happened in my entire life happened towards the end of 2008 and I didn't know how to live anymore as a result. That initially FORCED me to seek help even further. Life coaches wanted an arm and a leg to coach me. I had no money for even a pot to piss in. I was as low as you can possibly get financially and emotionally. But mentally I knew I'd get through it. 2010 was a BIG turn around for me and towards the end of that year, the help I got was indescribable to the point where, even I'm amazed I got as far as I did financially and to own the arsenal of gear that I own today.
I'm EXTREMELY reluctant to post pics right now, because if I'm being ridiculed for what I have right now without any proof, you guys will take it to the next level. And if you can't handle me at my worst, then you don't even remotely deserve me at my best!
I don't live in fear like you probably do, with your judging comments about me, nor do I appreciate your ridiculing remarks towards me.
Sina |
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Sina172
Platinum Member
Joined: 29 May 2007
Posts: 1194
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| Posted: Wed Feb 29, 2012 6:53 am Post subject: |
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| JuneauUnderground wrote: | Re: Sina's comment about the M3 . . . I immediately remembered the video put out after Michael Jackson's death titled "This Is It", the documentary of the LA rehearsals prior to the series of Jackson's London concerts which never occurred. The keyboard player was using an M3. I figure that outfit could have had any number of keyboards in the world, - think Oasys here - concluding the M3, certainly was the best choice to get the job done. Note: The guitar player in the video is smokin' hot as well!!
I still love my M3. Even more so after having the Kronos. I split time between two locations, M3 in one, the Kronos in the other. After spending my initial 2 month honeymoon period with the Kronos, I went back to the M3 for awhile. I was truly marveled at what a superb piece of kit the M3 still is. Ths is a keyboard I had for two years prior to the Kronos. It's not a Kronos, not even close even though they share some of the same DNA, but it ain't half bad either. The M3 is certainly not "crap" by any stretch of the imagination. Also, the M3 version of the RH3 88 keybed is my favorite notwithstanding the "gappy" keys. |
Coming from an OASYS, I've always hated the M3 and its sound quality.
I do have the M50-88, but I only use it as a scratchpad and I love the action on it, too. It makes a fantastic USB MIDI Controller with the Dual Arps and Drum Track feature. Plus the fact that it's SO simple: SEQ, Program, and Combi Mode and that's IT! And I LOVE the fact that it doesn't have a sampler. Price wise its one of the best keyboards out there. But because I use it as a scratchpad, and not as a serious instrument, I tend to enjoy it for what it is and what it does for me. Quality wise, its just NOT there for me to use it in any recordings and what ever Sequences I have, I transfer them over to my OASYS or KRONOS, and layer the drums among the two instruments and my jaws DROP in amazement EVERY time at the difference!
I'm still waiting on the Sequencer updates from the M3 to be on KRONOS with the next OS update. I think its coming and once it does, my consideration for the M3 because of its better sequencer ends.
Xpanded WAS an improvement, but my God, how inferior it sounds to the OASYS and KRONOS! I HATE it!
If you've had the M3 for two years, your perspective is WELL justified as your still getting used to how much better KRONOS sounds. But trust me, own the KRONOS for a couple more years and THEN go back to the M3. You probably won't like it nearly as much anymore.
| Quote: | | And about the M3: Could it be you have the same remarks about the Kronos when a new Kronos (2) or successor will be available? For me the M50 still sound as good as when I bought it, however the Kronos is better (duh). If I wouldn't have a Kronos I would still be happy with the M50. |
Michel, what the hell are you implying here?! KRONOS came after the OASYS and the OASYS was THE BEST thing that's EVER happened to me! KRONOS is HALF the cost of an OASYS and people who knock it down are downright insane!  Maybe they're just jealous that they can't afford one after buying a Motif!
In all seriousness, though, the TRINITY was WAY better than the Triton in sound quality, and it still stand the test of time. The M1 from 1988 is STILL one of my all time favorite keyboards and I use my M1's all the time! So I don't know where your getting that bullsh*t statement from. I have just about EVERY Korg Workstation EVER made in my studio. The ONLY one I NEVER liked was the M3. It's a piece of sh*t sounding toy that NEVER should've been made to begin with. It looks and sounds hideous to me, and I can't for the life of me understand how people are even able to favor it over a KRONOS. That just baffles me!
Sina |
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michelkeijzers
Approved Merchant
Joined: 08 Feb 2007
Posts: 9113
Location: Netherlands
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| Posted: Wed Feb 29, 2012 9:21 am Post subject: |
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Sina you say the M3 is s**t, but that's just an opinion (I hope for you).
I have 'only' 5 Korg workstations and I liked the M50 overall better than my extreme. It has less samples but since the M50 has the same beautiful sounds from the M3 it is great for me. Now I have a Kronos I don't need the M50 anymore but the M50 still sounds as good as before.
I never had a Trinity, when I tried it at the store the screen was reacting too slow for gigging/easy editing purposes.
About the Oasys: yes that is a very good instrument, of course the Kronos now beats it soundwise, not build quality wise. I never knocked it down, it was just too pricey for me (as a non professional user).
About your choice of words like b*itting .. I mostly ignore those words (and sometime the person saying it).
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Developer of the free PCG file managing application for most Korg workstations: PCG Tools, see https://www.kronoshaven.com/pcgtools/ |
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Sina172
Platinum Member
Joined: 29 May 2007
Posts: 1194
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| Posted: Fri Mar 02, 2012 9:55 pm Post subject: |
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| michelkeijzers wrote: | Sina you say the M3 is s**t, but that's just an opinion (I hope for you).
I have 'only' 5 Korg workstations and I liked the M50 overall better than my extreme. It has less samples but since the M50 has the same beautiful sounds from the M3 it is great for me. Now I have a Kronos I don't need the M50 anymore but the M50 still sounds as good as before.
I never had a Trinity, when I tried it at the store the screen was reacting too slow for gigging/easy editing purposes.
About the Oasys: yes that is a very good instrument, of course the Kronos now beats it soundwise, not build quality wise. I never knocked it down, it was just too pricey for me (as a non professional user). |
My view on the M3 IS my opinion, but a very valid one at that as I spent 6 weeks comparing the OASYS and M3 for a friend. I hated it even MORE after the comparison, to be honest. I may be in the minority, but I don't look at "price" as a determining factor for something I want. The M3 came out AFTER I got the OASYS, and my God am I glad I did NOT get an M3 instead! I would have kicked myself like I've done in the past for making decisions like that.
When I played the M3 at the store, I didn't hear anything on it that I didn't have on the OASYS, except for maybe a few new Combi's and the Drum Track. When I compared the M3 and OASYS at home, the differences in sound quality became SO obvious and it was SO INFERIOR, to the point where I couldn't even last 5 minutes on it anymore. Then I got REALLY pissed that the M3 got the Sequencer updates and left the OASYS with nothing in terms of Sequencing in the end, other than a Play Button in the Event List Editor so you can hear your changes without having to exit. M3 had some minor advantages, too in addition to the updated Sequencer, but nothing to really make me get one immediately. And I got over the Sequencer issue, obviously and have ZERO complaints other than the 192 PPQN JOKE of a resolution on the OASYS Sequencer.
KRONOS makes up for that in what I consider to be quite possibly THE BIGGEST way I could ever imagine. I have NO issues Quantizing 64th note KARMA Gated GE Patterns anymore, and it's now my main Sequencer hardware in addition to my Fantom-X8's with Logic being my primary Sequencer that ties all my instruments together in one environment as a result. I guess you could say the same for my M50's, but the M50 doesn't have KARMA.
My issues with the M3 have to do with its horrible sound, and the fact that its SO cluttered! The Sampling on it, although identical to the Triton Studio and OASYS, is worthless to me. KARMA is a BITCH to program on it, being SO used to the OASYS 10" screen and now the KRONOS screen which I have NO issues with regarding fonts and like I said before in other threads, the ONLY reason its on my list is because of its Sequencer. I haven't jumped on it, yet because I'm waiting on the next few updates with KRONOS and to see if KRONOS will see the M3 enhancements. If it doesn't happen within a year from now, I'm getting an M3 and that will be my main Sequencer that'll tie in with my Fantom X8's, KRONOS's, OASYS 88's and Tritons.
And if I DO get the M3, I'm spending some SERIOUS cash to get someone to make me the render Sharp created of the Black M3, with Chrome slider caps with Blue LED's in the center and across the keyboard, minus the Tempo LED which will stay red. I can't stand that hideous white look on it.
So that's my rant on the M3. Other than the Sequencer and minor enhancements, I hate it for what it is. Plain and simple.
M50 ironically has the same sound, but there's a certain appeal to it that I can't resist. I LOVE the black look, and I love the fact that it's got that retro M1 look like KRONOS does. I LOVE my 2 M50-88's and use them all the time as a scratch pad, but sound wise it's just not there for me. KRONOS and OASYS provide that sound quality worthy enough to record with, So do the Tritons I have. I record with them ALL the time and actually prefer their sound to the M50. The Sequencers on them are great as well, as that's what I started with back in 2000 with the Triton Pro.
Trinity is a different story. That sound its got is SO smooth, SO lush that it's irresistible to play on! Some of my Trinity's are modded with the same brushed metal case, and bezel around the screen but it's black. The very first Trinity's that were ever made were black and never made it to the US, IIRC. I know some people out here in LA that mod synths and I wanted that original black look. So that's what I did and I now have both as I love both looks.
By the way, I'm not a pro user, either, but that didn't stop me from paying $8K for an OASYS. I don't make music for a living, but I wanted that sound and I was MORE than willing to pay $8K for it. And this was at a time where $8K for me was SO out of reach, that I'd CRY myself to sleep trying to get an OASYS. It was a 2 year struggle, and one of the worst struggles I've ever gone through in my life.
So the OASYS to me was a BIG deal....And my music was never the same after I got it.
KRONOS comes out at half the cost, and I'm STILL amazed that they were even able to pull it off at this price point. KRONOS is an irreplaceable instrument to me, and will be for a LONG time to me. This is now my main source of sounds and the foundation of everything I do today and to see someone ask for support for one of THE WORST formats ever created in Audio quality is a disgrace to its quality and sound!
MP3's serve one purpose and ONE purpose only: to promote your music online. That's IT!
So let's keep KRONOS where it belongs: One of THE most unprecedented, most undisputed quality instruments that have ever existed in history.
You want MP3's? Use your computer. I don't even use the MP3 feature of my PA-Series Arrangers. I use WAV file files and transfer them to my Computer which then go into my OASYS 88's for CD Mastering and burning.
Sina |
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Pepperpotty
Moderator
Joined: 31 Dec 2010
Posts: 1308
Location: Suffolk, UK
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| Posted: Fri Mar 02, 2012 11:22 pm Post subject: |
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Ok, that's enough now guys. This thread has gone way beyond off topic.
We're clamping down hard on trouble makers on the forums now, especially in this section. We're working hard to ensure that this is a place that people enjoy coming to. Not where they get attacked for having a difference in opinion.
Sina, no one is disputing that Mp3's don't have the best sound quality. But they certainly have their purpose. I keep seeing you telling people that they need to go out and spend obscene amounts of money on sound equipment but it's just not realistic to think that we all have that sort of money.
I'm not saying that you can't express your opinion, you just need to think more carefully about what you're saying as you seem to be offending a lot of people here.
We've all had our struggles in life and I'm sure that many will agree with me when I say that music plays a part in getting you through the tough times. So let's remember why we're all here ok?
I'm locking this but if the OP still wants help then feel free to open another thread and lets hope it doesn't go the same way as this one.
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Current gear: Korg Kronos 61, Voicelive 2, Shure SM58, Alesis M1 Active 520, Focusrite Scarlett 18i6 |
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