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music_avijeet
Junior Member
Joined: 18 Jan 2012
Posts: 57
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 Posted: Sun May 20, 2012 10:38 pm Post subject: Use of D.I box on the Kronos for live shows? |
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I was recently performing live at a show with some reputed artists and sound guys. The engineer suggested I use D.I boxes for my Outs from the Kronos. Because I was the juniormost artist and he's a big name in live sound engineering, I didn't wish to question his decision.
My question is, does it make any difference? I mean the Kronos has balanced Outs.
The crowd was i about 9,000 to 10,000 range. So we had accordingly powerful soundsystems too.
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Motif XF7 + Kronos 61 mounted on a K&M Spider Pro! Bliss! |
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DaveBoulden
Senior Member
Joined: 20 Nov 2009
Posts: 314
Location: Kent, United Kingdom
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| Posted: Sun May 20, 2012 10:43 pm Post subject: |
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Most of the times I've done festivals using a pro PA company, my keyboard rigs have been plugged into DI boxes (usually BSS AR133 active DI boxes). I think most PA guys like the protection a DI box affords them... for one thing it has a selectable pad if needed and for the other, better a £100 DI box take a hit than a £30,000 digital live console!
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Kronos 73 Mk1, Roland Fantom 07 and a studio full o'stuff! |
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roblof
Full Member
Joined: 12 Dec 2008
Posts: 102
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| Posted: Sun May 20, 2012 10:51 pm Post subject: |
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The DI will eliminate ground loops/hum entering the mixer. It will also protect the mixer if your equipment has a faulty power supply that otherwise might kill the mixer.
The DI also converts your line-level signal into mic-level. This reduces any problem that might arise due to crosstalk in the multi-snake. |
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1jordyzzz
Platinum Member
Joined: 03 Mar 2012
Posts: 688
Location: Indonesia
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| Posted: Mon May 21, 2012 4:48 am Post subject: |
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hey maybe this is a noob-ish question, but i don't have a clue of what the DI box fuction... could somebody explain it to me (to add roblof post more)
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Love my kronos 88 
Love my yamaha psr s910 as well
Korg Kronos 88, Yamaha PSR s910, Korg C720, Yamaha DTX 520, Focusrite Scarlett 18i6, a pair of Yamaha HS80 in (soon not to be) an unproperly treated room.. |
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michelkeijzers
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Joined: 08 Feb 2007
Posts: 9113
Location: Netherlands
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| Posted: Mon May 21, 2012 7:02 am Post subject: |
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I don't know the real electronic function inside, but what it does is 'decoupble' the signals, especially for ground loops/hum.
Last gig I also had a lot of hum, both in my own monitor and in the PA and a DI box is a very cheap solution. I use a very cheap Behringer DI-20 which does the job perfectly.
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Developer of the free PCG file managing application for most Korg workstations: PCG Tools, see https://www.kronoshaven.com/pcgtools/ |
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roblof
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michelkeijzers
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Location: Netherlands
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| Posted: Mon May 21, 2012 8:15 am Post subject: |
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I normally use the DI box of the PA company, if they don't have one I use very cheap Behringer DI20's (cost about $25) and never had any problems with it.
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Developer of the free PCG file managing application for most Korg workstations: PCG Tools, see https://www.kronoshaven.com/pcgtools/ |
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DocBambs
Full Member
Joined: 30 Sep 2011
Posts: 160
Location: UK - Midlands
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| Posted: Mon May 21, 2012 8:30 am Post subject: |
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At the most basic level, a DI box takes the two pin cable from you instrument and turns it into a 3 pin cable! You only need two pins to carry sound. The third pin removes interference. (insert Wikipedia article!)
There is something else that the 3rd pin allows - Phantom Power. This allows the desk to provide power to devices that need it (including DI boxes!) especially some types of microphones. Phantom Power is the reason that I won't be plugging the Kronos directly into desks - I use an isolating transformer (http://www.orchid-electronics.co.uk/dual_isolator.htm). This also removes hums etc.
(Many desks have Phantom Power for groups of channels and I have watched it switched on an off randomly by sound engineers trying to solve problems with Phantom powered gear. I would rather not have that directly into the Kronos!)
DB
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Last edited by DocBambs on Mon May 21, 2012 9:22 am; edited 1 time in total |
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michelkeijzers
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Joined: 08 Feb 2007
Posts: 9113
Location: Netherlands
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| Posted: Mon May 21, 2012 8:41 am Post subject: |
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| DocBambs wrote: | At the most basic level, a DI box takes the two pin cable from you instrument and turns it into a 3 pin cable! You only need two pins to carry sound. The third pin removes interference. (insert Wikipedia article!)
There is something else that the 3rd pin allows - Phantom Power. This allows the desk to provide power to devices that need it (including DI boxes!) especially some types of microphones. Phantom Power is the reason that I won't be plugging the Kronos directly into desks - I use an isolating transformer (http://www.orchid-electronics.co.uk/dual_isolator.htm). This also removes hums etc.
(Many desks have Phantom Power for groups of channels and I have watched it switched on an off randomly by sound engineers trying to solve problems with Phantom powered gear. I would rather not have that directly into the Kronos!)
DB |
To add a little: I use JBL Eons as monitors, these are active. When it is connected to a PA (JBL out to PA in), and the PA has Phantom power which cannot be switched of per channel (see above), the JBL does not sound or distorted. Using a DI helps in this case.
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alanjpearson
Senior Member
Joined: 21 Feb 2012
Posts: 283
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| Posted: Mon May 21, 2012 10:22 am Post subject: Re: Use of D.I box on the Kronos for live shows? |
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| music_avijeet wrote: | I was recently performing live at a show with some reputed artists and sound guys. The engineer suggested I use D.I boxes for my Outs from the Kronos. Because I was the juniormost artist and he's a big name in live sound engineering, I didn't wish to question his decision.
My question is, does it make any difference? I mean the Kronos has balanced Outs.
The crowd was i about 9,000 to 10,000 range. So we had accordingly powerful soundsystems too. |
That was some crowd - what were you playing?
In theory if you have a keyboard with balanced outputs you don't need a DI box.
A DI box takes unbalanced signals and converts them to balanced signals in order to eliminate hum and interference.
When you string your leads across the stage to the stage box, they almost always cross other leads, including power.
If your signal is unbalanced the noise from the other leads is induced into your cables, so you get 110/240 volt mains and everything else in the signal you send to the mixer.
The advantage of adding a DI box to balanced outputs from a keyboard is the DI box usually has two additional buttons and an additional output.
Button one is a PAD button to remove -20dB of signal, in case the signal is too high.
Button two is a ground lift button which can be used to remove hum.
The additional output is to link your input signal to your personal mixer or IEM to you can hear your instrument.
R
Alan |
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.Jens
Senior Member
Joined: 06 Dec 2011
Posts: 383
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| Posted: Mon May 21, 2012 12:25 pm Post subject: Re: Use of D.I box on the Kronos for live shows? |
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| alanjpearson wrote: |
The advantage of adding a DI box to balanced outputs from a keyboard is the DI box usually has two additional buttons and an additional output.
Button one is a PAD button to remove -20dB of signal, in case the signal is too high. |
It should be noted, that a standard DI (in contrast to a line transformer) also reduces the line level to mic level, even without pressing the PAD button. The PAD gives additional 20dB damping.
Smaller / cheaper mixing desks may not have the possibility to switch the "fully featured" channel strips to line level, so a DI will certainly help here.
The question, which comes to my mind thinking of phantom power is: Does anybody know (e.g. Dan or Rich?) if the Kronos's outputs are phantom power save? I assume that there is no output transformer, but the usual "servo" type balancing. Will phantom power harm the Kronos? In this case, we all should consider having DIs in the tool kit (which I do for several reasons since years) to protect it... |
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Kontrol49
Platinum Member
Joined: 04 Mar 2006
Posts: 1280
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music_avijeet
Junior Member
Joined: 18 Jan 2012
Posts: 57
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| Posted: Mon May 21, 2012 10:24 pm Post subject: Re: Use of D.I box on the Kronos for live shows? |
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The thing is my previous shows were for maximum 2,000 crowd tops and i never used any DI box and didn't really have any issues about it. Hence was confused.
| alanjpearson wrote: |
That was some crowd - what were you playing?
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Bollywood stuff. Reputed artist. Reputed sound company. Was actually wondering how'd I manage to land up the gig!
| michelkeijzers wrote: | | I normally use the DI box of the PA company, if they don't have one I use very cheap Behringer DI20's (cost about $25) and never had any problems with it. |
That's pretty affordable. Should I buy and keep 2 pairs? I use two keyboards on stage.
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Motif XF7 + Kronos 61 mounted on a K&M Spider Pro! Bliss! |
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RonF
Platinum Member
Joined: 04 Jul 2002
Posts: 1179
Location: San Diego, CA USA
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| Posted: Mon May 21, 2012 10:43 pm Post subject: |
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For Hum in a live venue, nothing beats these in my experience:
http://www.amazon.com/Ebtech-HE-2-XLR-Eliminator-2-Channel-Jacks/dp/B00101WA4C/ref=sr_1_3?ie=UTF8&qid=1337640270&sr=8-3
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NuSkoolTone
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Joined: 19 Mar 2007
Posts: 1069
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| Posted: Tue May 22, 2012 1:38 am Post subject: |
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Not necessary for my needs live, but I use the Radial JDI duplex for recording with great results.
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