Korg Forums

[Daz]

http://www.irishacts.com/support/tutorials/reverse-daz2.mp3  

I was having so much fun with this little bit, that I uploaded a slightly longer snippet. Its all based around Sharps bass and drum parts. Its not brilliant admittedly, but it has some good moments A month or two ago, I couldn't string together more than 15 seconds of anything, and I now I can get to a 1 minute and half with a few rough edges. So I'm going in the right kind of direction

Anyway the deal is, anyone who is more advanced can offer me some tips/critique, and anyone less advanced can ask me questions about what I was up to.

Daz.

[RiotNrrd]

Hey, that's not too bad!

[Daz]

Thanks, mate. I think "not too bad", is very much where I am at the moment

I was thinking about you and using the Triton/Karma sequencers. When I was in a band, actually playing music, I used a Yamaha W7 workstation. This was the grandaddy of the Motif that was made at the same as the Trinity. Its much like the Triton in some ways (although not nearly as good). At first I tried to make sequenced music using the sequencer on that, and found it very difficult. Then I got my Triton and tried again with the sequencer of that, still no great progress Then I bought some VA synths and found that I really needed to get a PC sequencer to control all this stuff, and I bought a copy of Cubase. Wow, then it all took off, 'cos I then only had difficulty with the music not with the sequencing. I am not saying the Triton/Karma sequencer is bad or anything, that really would be contraversial But I found using a PC sequencer about a million times easier and it made the whole process of sequencing so much more "visual" and immediate. It might just be my way of thinking about these things.

I would recommend even checking out something like Cubasis 3.0 (which I use on my laptop). The Go version is about £30 ($45?), and even that I find far better for me than the Triton sequencer. Of course you'll need a MIDI interface, maybe a Midiman Midisport 2x2 (2 ins and 2 outs). That'll hook up to your USB port, and cost you about £50 ($75??).

I have used my Triton in Combi with the "to host" cable connected to my Dell Latitude laptop, and Cubasis doing the sequencing duties. I found this a really great a productive little setup. In fact, coincidentally, if you look at the box that Cubasis comes in, the picture on the front is of a guy using a Triton with a Dell laptop So it must be the right thing to do, right  ;D Cubasis also comes with a rather good manual, and a nifty little song construction kit, which contains a bunch of midi patterns similar to the gift that Sharpy recently gave us.

If I remember rightly, Sharp actually uses the sequencers on the Triton/Trinity to great effect, so it must be good, but probably only in the right hands

LOL, I am not ashamed to admit that I use technology as a crutch...

Daz.

[Daz]

... LOL, but I am not afraid of that Triton sequencer , oh no

Here is a pure Triton version of my twiddlings, ported from the original stuff I was doing in Reason :

http://www.irishacts.com/support/tutorials/rev-tri.sng

I used GM2 sounds just to make life easier. I used the St BPM Delay to replace the 2 tempo synched delays I used in Reason, its a drop in replacement. I often use Reason for building "prototype" songs like this and then export it all to MIDI and then build up properly in Cubase or Logic using my hardware synths, but I've never tried going from Reason to the Triton sequencer before. Thought I'd give it a whirl see what the results were like. The Triton sequencer, sounds so tight in comparison.

Daz.

[RiotNrrd]

I know what you mean about using software sequencers.  I've been thinking much the same thing.

While the Karma/Triton sequencer isn't bad, it is hard for me to visualize the various sections.  I end up with fifteen "songs", each containing little scraps that I put together in yet another song, and I lose track of what is where.

I've been seriously considering buying a new computer, just to hook my synths to.  The one I have right now (that I'm writing this on) is ancient, and way too underpowered (Pentium 233) to really run the newest software on - even the demo's you mention, for that matter would suck on this computer.  I know, because I've tried.  So I think a new, dedicated music computer is probably in my near future.

[Sharp]

I'm back..he..he..
I got dragged away on a job.

Nice one Daz.. I love the demos.
It really gets the point across.

Most styles of music depend on a building block and a style of building. For example Drum and Bass uses the snare drum as its call sign. If you take drum and bass apart and look at what's going on, you will see that its very often nothing but a straight beat speeded up, with a tight BPM delay on the bass drum. Have a listen to this demo I made, you should be able to hear what I'm talking about. I'm only playing the bass drum 4 times per measure. The BMP delay is doing the rest.

http://www.irishacts.com/support/tutorials/drum&bass.mp3
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[Sharp]

Here's another demo based on Techno and Trance.
This style of music does not depend on the drums for anything. They are usually only background tracks. The Bass, rifts and single note pad sounds are what carry this style along.

http://www.irishacts.com/support/tutorials/demo2.mp3

LOL. I might actually use what I made here in a song. It's kind of cool.

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[Sharp]

In this one I've gone for mood music. It's based on a chill out style, but really slowed down and changed ever so slightly. This is the kind of music that you will hear in Video games and TV documentaries for Flash Back TV and the National Geographic channel.

The simply reason is because it can repeat constantly for a long amount of time and it does not get boring during game play or Tv air time. It's designed that you listen to it, but it chills you out that your mind wanders thinking about something else.

http://www.irishacts.com/support/tutorials/games.mp3

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[Daz]

[quote author=Sharp link=board=korgsupport;num=1015625078;start=15#21 date=03/10/02 at 09:01:14]Here's another demo based on Techno and Trance.
This style of music does not depend on the drums for anything. They are usually only background tracks. The Bass, rifts and single note pad sounds are what carry this style along.

http://www.irishacts.com/support/tutorials/demo2.mp3

LOL. I might actually use what I made here in a song. It's kind of cool.
[/quote]

Yum ! I like that demo2 a lot. Great to hear all the individual bits broken out, that really helps so much. Cheers, this is tops !

So what was your EQ secret on the first mp3 ?

Daz.

[RiotNrrd]

OK, now I'm just annoyed that you can knock those demos out like that while I take days to produce crap!

I'm kidding, of course.  

Those are really good.  While I liked demo2, I really liked the chill-out piece.

Separating the sections out really does help quite a lot.  I need to rethink some of my composing techniques, I think.  A lot of times, in an effort to make the pieces more interesting, or more complex, I'll layer on a LOT of tracks.  But listening to the demos makes me think that if done right, only a few tracks are really necessary.

Like the bluesman told the up-and-comer, "You play too many notes.  You need to play more of the spaces between the notes."

One thing I definitely notice is that I'm lacking when it comes to using the effects/eq correctly.  The demos have a nice, crisp, sound, and I'm finding that my pieces tend to get a little muddy.  I'm thinking that I'm not using eq as well as I might (of course, my M-1 speakers are bass heavy to begin with, and to a certain extent muddy everything up a little anyway).

[Sharp]

As for as I'm concerned when programming, the EQ is the most important thing. And I really hope you can hear exactly what it is in the EQ that I go after. Take any of the demo's I uploaded. Nothing I programmed is in any way difficult at all. In fact its all very basic programming with no fancy fingering. But yet the mix sounds good and it does kick.

When I'm programming a song, I work on a basic drum track first. Bass Drum, Snare, and Hi-Hat. These 3 sounds are extremely important. If I don't get the EQ right, nothing I program after will sound like a professionally mixed tune.

What I go after it that very punchy kick that the bass drum has. The clear sound of the snare, with added 80hz bass, and the fine-tuned Hi-hat that cuts through no matter what I mix with it. Once I have these parts right, I can start to add everything else (drums). I mix all my drum sound on separate tracks. Bass on 1, snare on 2, Hi-hat on 3 and so on. Simply because I get total control over the mix. This is very important as the demos show. Some styles of music require you add an effect on one drum instrument and not on any of the others. Like the Trance effect having the bass drum running on a reverse reverb and so on. You can program up some patts that sound stupid, but when you add the right effects in the right places, they really come alive.

The Bass is also just as important as the drums. It always has to have nearly no effects added. And a fine-tuned 7 band stereo EQ.

When you imagination takes over, you can find ways around the rules of making your tune kicking. For example, if you programmed up a bass track and used a sound that has no depth to it and is strongly processed with different effects. It's obviously not going to have the right EQ to kick. But what you can do here, is create a new program sound using sine wave or the saw wave. Take the MG bass sound on the Triton and replace the multisounds in the OSC's with either the sine wave or the saw wave. Now in sequencer mode copy the information from the bass track in to a blank track and select the new program sound you made. With absolutely no effects added, allow your new program to play along side your tune with your processed bass track. This program you created is built for only adding depth to sounds that have none. In other words, it adds base to sounds that don't have enough, but it does not change the overall sound of your bass track. It just gives it life. To fine tune this trick you should keep turning down the volume on the new program until it is only adding the right amount of depth to the EQ of the bass track.


The Jerry Springer final thought.

Remember its really not what you play, its how you do it. If you can get the 7 Band Graphic perfect on the drum sounds, and the same on the Bass track, you should end up with that professional sounding mix. Anything after that does not matter. For dance music the Drums and Bass are what make it sound professional. If you get that wrong, then it does not matter what the heck you program. It will just sound soft and slightly lifeless.

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[delerium]

These are awesome tips Sharp, thanks.       I'll have to try this in more detail tonight.

[Sharp]

Daz, in the demo reverse-daz2.mp3, your bring in a sound around 22 seconds into the demo. What is it ?. Heck, I really like it.
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[Sharp]

Make sure you download all the demos. They speak a million words.

And thanks to everyone else for joining in on this. Especially Daz and his cool demos. I think it is really good stuff that we are talking about here. I'd nearly post a link over on Triton Central to share this with the guys over there, only it would look like I'm trying snatch members. Pity...its good stuff.

[quote author=delerium link=board=korgsupport;num=1015625078;start=15#26 date=03/10/02 at 14:18:12]These are awesome tips Sharp, thanks.       I'll have to try this in more detail tonight.[/quote]

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[Daz]

[quote author=Sharp link=board=korgsupport;num=1015625078;start=15#27 date=03/10/02 at 14:25:30]Daz, in the demo reverse-daz2.mp3, your bring in a sound around 22 seconds into the demo. What is it ?. Heck, I really like it.[/quote]

Its actually sound I programmed in the Reason Subtraktor synth fed through some light distortion. It is two detuned triangle waves on the two oscillators and the noise oscillator mixed in there too.

Daz.