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How do they do that.
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cnegrad
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 11, 2002 6:37 pm    Post subject: Re: How do they do that. Reply with quote

Ok, regarding gating, no mp3 example is necessary. Now that I know what I'm listening for I can easily hear it in the above mp3 examples.

But what's the technique? Obviously long filter controller changes can be done easily with either the joystick or ribbon controller. BUT:

If you're trying to create a specific gated rhythm, how do you accomplish this accurately? I assume that using a joystick or ribbon controller would result in increments that are too gradual when you want specificly 0 or 127 values over a sustained note. And if you're going to tell me to draw the values in manually, how do you go about achieving a cool syncopated rhythm? I mean, I know the rhythm I want, and I can perform it easily on the rhythmic instrument of your choice. But using either a curve drawing window or entering specific numerical values, I'd have no idea how to create the rhythm  visually in Logic .

What's the technique?

Thanks,
-cnegrad
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Sharp
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 11, 2002 6:59 pm    Post subject: Re: How do they do that. Reply with quote

Cnegrad.

I don't use anything other than Volume change data.
Download this, http://www.irishacts.com/support/tutorials/gate.sng

Select a Strings sound for Track 1, then press the start button and play a chord on the keys.

You should hear the gate effect at that point.

Now have a look in the Event Edit on page 5 to see what I did. It's nothing other than volume change data.

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Daz
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 11, 2002 7:07 pm    Post subject: Re: How do they do that. Reply with quote

In Logic you can do it either in the HyperEditor or using the List editor.

Create a new MIDI part in the arrange window, and then pull up "Hyper Edit" from the Window menu. In the default hyperset that appear you can draw volume steps in the top row, as per Sharps advice :




Daz.
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Sharp
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 11, 2002 7:14 pm    Post subject: Re: How do they do that. Reply with quote

That sounds a lot faster than the way I do it.
Very interesting.

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Daz
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 11, 2002 7:42 pm    Post subject: Re: How do they do that. Reply with quote

You can change the quantization of that grid to 1/32 notes or whatever to get the resolution you need, its very handy.

Anyway, it may be a little gratutious, but I built a little sample, trying to embrace a number of the tips that Sharp has dished out here.

http://www.irishacts.com/support/tutorials/gating-demo.mp3  

The drums have given been given the treatments suggested (EQ'ing, separate effects on each drum sound etc.), the synth line has plenty of filter modulation and is gated.

By focusing on what has been said and (hopefully getting it about right Smile ), I found the mix came out about right and when I came to master it I didn't have to do much at all (a bit of miracle Smile ). It sounds quite crisp and not too muddy, I hope you'll agree. That is a problem that I normally have, and RiotNrrd's words about muddiness really rang an enormous bell with me.

Daz.
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Sharp
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 11, 2002 7:56 pm    Post subject: Re: How do they do that. Reply with quote

Hey, excellent work on the mix. The EQ for the drum track sounds like it was mastered professionally.
Nice work Daz.


[hr]
Great gate effect, what also sounds nice is very slight phaser or  flanger with some smooth hall effect added.

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cnegrad
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 11, 2002 8:10 pm    Post subject: Re: How do they do that. Reply with quote

Putting it in "Logic-terms" was exactly what I needed; thanks a million! I can't wait to go try this out!

-cnegrad
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Daz
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 11, 2002 8:19 pm    Post subject: Re: How do they do that. Reply with quote

It would be great to hear how you get on. In the hyper editor I would recommend the following settings for the volume row :

Grid: 1/32 note
Penwidth : 2
Style : 3

[hr]

Thanks Sharp ! I am absolutely chuffed, 'cos seriously before this conversation a lot of what of I was doing sounded absolutely awful Smile

Daz.
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RiotNrrd
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 11, 2002 8:45 pm    Post subject: Re: How do they do that. Reply with quote

Wow, Daz, that sounds fantastic!

Sadly, I haven't yet had an opportunity to sit down with the keyboards since this thread started, so I can't post any great accomplishments yet.  But I'm definitely going to try splitting the drums parts across multiple tracks.

I'm hardly a pro with the step editor, so there's gonna be a bit of a learning curve to negotiate there - honestly, I haven't even looked at the step editor since about a month after I bought my Triton.  This is giving me incentive to crack open that section of the manual, though, instead of trying to accomplish anything by just hammering on the keys.

I'm still a little fuzzy on how to achieve the gating effect using ONLY the Triton / Karma.  But there's at least a dim little light hanging over my head whereas before it was pretty much dark.

Sounds like you've really taken this series of tips to heart, though.  Seriously, that little snippet of music you posted sounds really professional.  I'm as excited as you are!
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Daz
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 11, 2002 9:27 pm    Post subject: Re: How do they do that. Reply with quote

Quote:

I'm still a little fuzzy on how to achieve the gating effect using ONLY the Triton / Karma.


Sharp spilled the beans about that here :
http://www.irishacts.com/forum/yabb/YaBB.cgi?board=korgsupport;action=display;num=1010251187

Quote:

Sounds like you've really taken this series of tips to heart, though.  Seriously, that little snippet of music you posted sounds really professional.  I'm as excited as you are!


Thanks Smile  I've definitely learnt an import lesson here. Sharps "demo2" is the absolute opposite to my previous mixes, where the drums had been just one syrupy mess Smile In demo2 there is a separation, if you like, to the drums. As Sharp said, if the drums are right, making the other bits sound right is a very great deal easier, and I definitely found that. Particularly with the bass, which normally eithers gets lost, or masks the kick.  When the drums are wrong they seem to screw the rest of the piece up so badly. I used to play the bass in a band, and if I ever made a mistake (hit a bum note, whatever), it made the the guys playing guitar look at their fretboards to see if they were making a mistake; they never seemed to think it was me Smile  Same kind of acoustic effect, I guess.

Daz.
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Sharp
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 11, 2002 9:28 pm    Post subject: Re: How do they do that. Reply with quote

Quote:
Thanks Sharp ! I am absolutely chuffed, 'cos seriously before this conversation a lot of what of I was doing sounded absolutely awful  



No, I'm impressed. You really nailed that one fast. Good on you.  ;D

Nailing the Drums and the Bass down with the right EQ is the most important part of everything. Once that's done, everything else just falls into place, and your mix will sound professionally mastered every time.

Excellent work Daz.  Wink

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Daz
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 11, 2002 9:52 pm    Post subject: Re: How do they do that. Reply with quote

Sharp has catered very nicely for the people using the Triton sequencer, but for anyone using Cubase or Logic you can grab gating demo's from these two links :

LAP
http://www.btinternet.com/~daz.richards/gating.lso

Cubase
http://www.btinternet.com/~daz.richards/gating.all

Both of those consist of two tracks. One for the note data, and the other for volume/gating data. Make sure both tracks point at your Triton on the same channel. Put the Triton in program mode and select one of the Triton's many gorgeous pads. I used the "Overture Pad" program, which is A25 in the Triton Le soundset. It sounded very splendid indeed Smile

Daz.
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Sharp
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 11, 2002 10:55 pm    Post subject: Re: How do they do that. Reply with quote

Hi Guys.

I'm after making another demo. I think it would be handy to hear a demo of absolutely everything we talked about in one tune. I've even used two gates.  

http://www.irishacts.com/support/tutorials/full-on-demo.mp3

This demo is going to be a lot harder than my other ones. I'm up to 12 tracks on my Trinity.

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RiotNrrd
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 12, 2002 12:22 am    Post subject: Re: How do they do that. Reply with quote

OK, I've been playing with drums on multiple tracks, using the step editor, and piping the bass straight into a 7 band eq.

This is freakin' phenomenal.  What a difference!

I mean, it sounds silly because it's such a simple idea.  I can't imagine why I didn't think of doing this before.  But MAN!  This is the way to do it.  I always considered drum programming to be hard (because I'm not a drummer).  But this is a piece of cake.  And I love the fact that I have so much more control over each part - I can drop out the hi-hats, bring them back in, put different effects on each sound, etc.

Sharp - it's like you've given me a new instrument.  The mud is gone!  Wow!
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Pecca
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 12, 2002 4:15 am    Post subject: Re: How do they do that. Reply with quote

Great stuff here ! Daz: Very pro sounding. GREAT ! Smile

Sharp... Now this latest demo is awesome !
Gee... Someday i wish i will be able to make stuff like that  ;D

Love these kind of threads Smile

Cheers / Pecca
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