RPPR is Eating up my 88 keys

Peas&Carrots · Post by **Peas&Carrots** » Tue Jun 25, 2013 6:54 pm

Has been covered before but was not fully answered...

When triggering RPPR from pads (or from Nanopad) is there a way of doing this without sacrificing keys on the Kronos - I really want a choice of having ALL my keys for performing and not for them to be auto-allocated as shutdown keys or actual RPPR trigger keys - My Kronos 88 suddenly got a whole lot smaller....

dfahrner · Post by **dfahrner** » Tue Jun 25, 2013 7:36 pm

I don't think that there's any way around this - C2 and below are defined as shutdown keys whenever RPPR is active...it's not as much of a problem with RPPR trigger keys, which are user - defined (does anyone really need C8?), and can be from external controllers on the K61 and K73...C2 is the lowest key on a K61, which is probably why "C2 or lower" are assigned as shutdown keys, so that one is always available on any KRONOS...but the highest shutdown key should be user defined, too, so that K73 and K88 users don't lose so much of the keyboard when RPPR is active, or maybe only the lowest key on any KRONOS should be the RPPR shutdown key...

df

Bald Eagle · Post by **Bald Eagle** » Tue Jun 25, 2013 7:43 pm

No way around this. It's to accommodate 61 key keybeds so that there is at least one shutdown key. It's that way on all Korg keyboards that have RPPR. Why RPPR shutdown was not user definable is a mystery.

Peas&Carrots · Post by **Peas&Carrots** » Tue Jun 25, 2013 7:51 pm

Thanks df and Bald Eagle

I thought that was the case. And yes I have started assigning the top keys to the triggers because I don't really use these all that much.

This is a real shame because some of the progs and combis really benefit from the full keyboard where lower orchestra and bass are essential. Plus isolating RPPR triggering to external devices / pads would also help prevent accidents when I get carried away!

Perhaps this needs to be added to the Kronos wish list?

If anyone has any way round this or alternative suggestions then please send a post.

jeebustrain · Post by **jeebustrain** » Tue Jun 25, 2013 8:09 pm

Peas&Carrots wrote:Thanks df and Bald Eagle

I thought that was the case. And yes I have started assigning the top keys to the triggers because I don't really use these all that much.

This is a real shame because some of the progs and combis really benefit from the full keyboard where lower orchestra and bass are essential. Plus isolating RPPR triggering to external devices / pads would also help prevent accidents when I get carried away!

Perhaps this needs to be added to the Kronos wish list?

If anyone has any way round this or alternative suggestions then please send a post.

what about transposing your sounds down an octave and just playing them one octave higher on the keybed?

Peas&Carrots · Post by **Peas&Carrots** » Tue Jun 25, 2013 8:31 pm

Yes - transposing would indeed work with many progs and combis and this would probably satisfy many situations but alas some of them just cry out for the full keyed or at least most of it. Piano is a fine example. Splits may also be problematic.

I have just thought of a potential solution - although not ideal - I do have an M3 73 which I was planning on selling on eBay (which can be a stressful experience). When needed this could be fully designated for RPPR's as the M3 module doesn't take up that much space...

Maybe this is a really good reason to keep hold of our slightly less current gear

Bald Eagle · Post by **Bald Eagle** » Tue Jun 25, 2013 9:00 pm

You could try to sell the M3 keybed and just keep the module. The M3 pads could be used as RPPR triggers. You should also be able to trigger M3 RPPR from the Kronos although I'm not sure what would happen when you played a key in the shutdown range. I'm guessing it would shutdown the RPPR as well as playing whatever program was in that range on the Kronos.

Peas&Carrots · Post by **Peas&Carrots** » Tue Jun 25, 2013 9:14 pm

Yes - transposing would indeed work with many progs and combis and this would probably satisfy many situations but alas some of them just cry out for the full keyed or at least most of it. Piano is a fine example. Splits may also be problematic.

I have just thought of a potential solution - although not ideal - I do have an M3 73 which I was planning on selling on eBay (which can be a stressful experience). When needed this could be fully designated for RPPR's as the M3 module doesn't take up that much space...

Maybe this is a really good reason to keep hold of our slightly less current gear

Peas&Carrots · Post by **Peas&Carrots** » Tue Jun 25, 2013 9:22 pm

apologies - somehow I managed to post the same replay x 2...

Bald Eagle - I'm guessing the M3 would have be a stand alone in respect of RPPR so either the M3 pads or the M3 keyboard would have to be used here. the limitations are that only the M3 loaded RPPR's could be used. Everything should tie together nicely with midi clock.

something worth experimenting with on a rainy day

Bald Eagle · Post by **Bald Eagle** » Wed Jun 26, 2013 10:53 am

You could use the M3 standalone for RPPR or midi the Kronos to the M3 and trigger the M3's RPPR from the Kronos. Maybe you could also use the Kronos virtual pads. Assign the M3 RPPR trigger to a key outside of the 88 key range and then assign that key to a Kronos virtual pad. I think that should be able to trigger the M3 RPPR.

Peas&Carrots · Post by **Peas&Carrots** » Wed Jun 26, 2013 6:20 pm

Things could also get interesting using the M3 Pads to trigger changes in drum track on the Kronos using RPPR Sysex. Hopefully the M3 bar and measure timings will match those on the Kronos so that the changes happen neatly. I could probably do the same with an iPad/Pod/Phone but it would be kind of nice to use the M3.

apex · Post by **apex** » Wed Jun 26, 2013 7:33 pm

one thing that I think we've talked about before in the past is to use a secondary keyboard assigned to another midi channel... that way you don't lose any keys at all.

what do you think about that?

Shakil · Post by **Shakil** » Wed Jun 26, 2013 7:47 pm

apex wrote:one thing that I think we've talked about before in the past is to use a secondary keyboard assigned to another midi channel... that way you don't lose any keys at all.

what do you think about that?

I think that only works if you use only external keyboards, like on M3-m. On KRONOS onboard keyboard, the RPPRs are set to active track, regardless of MIDI channel, so no matter which channel/track is active, you trigger the RPPRs. This is why the RPPR works and transmit midid to their own channels from any selected track.

So, it's the other way around... you have to trigger RPPR from the onboard keys and play live from external keyboard. The trick is to always assign RPPR while having selected same track, 16 works better. And then you can play live from external keyboard on any channel other than 16.

Bald Eagle · Post by **Bald Eagle** » Wed Jun 26, 2013 8:01 pm

apex wrote:one thing that I think we've talked about before in the past is to use a secondary keyboard assigned to another midi channel... that way you don't lose any keys at all.

what do you think about that?

I thought that RPPR is armed on a per song basis, not individual tracks. If that is the case you loose the shutdown keys no matter what. I'm away right now so can't try it.

Shakil · Post by **Shakil** » Wed Jun 26, 2013 8:59 pm

Bald Eagle wrote:
apex wrote:one thing that I think we've talked about before in the past is to use a secondary keyboard assigned to another midi channel... that way you don't lose any keys at all.

what do you think about that?
I thought that RPPR is armed on a per song basis, not individual tracks. If that is the case you loose the shutdown keys no matter what. I'm away right now so can't try it.

Yes, but there is a workaround if you use external keyboard to play live and the onboard keyboard for RPPR. Then you can free up the keys range to be played live from an external keyboard.