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Sequencer in Kross 2 vs Kronos / Nautilus sequencer

 
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hans1966
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Joined: 07 Nov 2015
Posts: 187
Location: Cali- Colombia

PostPosted: Sun Apr 04, 2021 5:58 am    Post subject: Sequencer in Kross 2 vs Kronos / Nautilus sequencer Reply with quote

Hi Guys, I was wondering if there are relevant differences between Kross 2 and Kronos / Nautilus, in sequencer mode?

I'm asking because I'd like to create a song from scratch in sequencer mode, recording track by track and then assigning independent effects to each channel.

is this possible on the Kross 2, or is it exclusive to the higher models.

Another question: is there any chance they could increase the memory expansion from 128MB to 512MB in an upcoming software update?

Thanks in advance for your answers

Greetings.
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Korg Kross 2 - Yamaha PSR-SX900
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Koekepan
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Joined: 27 Sep 2016
Posts: 473

PostPosted: Sun Apr 04, 2021 3:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Last question first:

I suppose that anything's possible, but realistically the Kross has been out for years with only one small update, so I don't expect much movement there.

As for recording: you can definitely record track by track, in terms of MIDI. You can definitely overdub, in terms of audio, and each overdub will have the sonic characteristics that you set up for it, including entirely independent effect chains. What you can't do as easily is to arrange things the way that the Kronos audio sequencer will let you.
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Musicwithharry
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Joined: 23 Mar 2012
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Location: Anamosa, IA

PostPosted: Sun Apr 04, 2021 5:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I will answer your two posts separately...

Recording audio in the Korg Kross is much different than in the Kronos. The most obvious reason is that the Kross only allows to 2-track audio recording, and you have to overdub to add more 'audio tracks' to the previously recorded audio track. It is not set up as a multitrack audio recorder like it is with the Kronos. You can record to WAV on the Kross and that is good, but it will not fuction like a multitrack recorder as it does on the Kronos.

The Kross sequencer is the typical MIDI sequencer that Korg has offered in its synths for years. It is tried and true, and works well. What it lacks is the touch screen and because of this, it makes navigation a series of button presses instead of being able to touch the screen.

For what it offers, the Kross is a great unit. As you can see in my signature, I have 4 of the Kross 1 synths and I get a lot of mileage out of them. I used to use one of them as my 'audio player' for the backing tracks for my original songs. When I got the PA700 arranger, I stopped using the Kross for that and my Kross units now are exclusively for when I play live with the cover band I am in. They provide the main piano sounds for my rig, as well as many other different sounds. I also have made short sequences of different parts of songs that need extra fill when the band is playing and they handle that very well too.

The Kross is no Kronos, but in its own right, it is a very powerful synth.

It was written - "I suppose that anything's possible, but realistically the Kross has been out for years with only one small update, so I don't expect much movement there."

There are two versions of the Kross. The 'upgrade' to the Kross 2 was pretty big, as it included more stock piano sounds, the sample pads, realtime control knobs for different things, and it also created sound libraries for different kinds of sounds.

With the Kross 1, there was an extra bank of sounds, but they were of Triton-type sounds and to my knowledge, that was the only extra sound bank available for the Kross 1. The Kross 2 has more than just one soundpack/soundbank available, including the piano sounds derived from the OASYS synth. To me, that is a pretty major upgrade.

What I would like to see in a 'Kross 3' is the addition of a touch screen and more space for additional samples and more sound banks. Maybe they will. Who knows what Korg have up their sleeve for a future version...

Grace,
Harry
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Alesis Vortex Keytar, Alesis QS6.2, Alesis QSR, Alesis SR-16, Behringer Deepmind-12, Ensoniq Avista 7600, Ensoniq VFX, Ensoniq VFX-SD, Ensoniq SQ1+, (2) Ensoniq SQ-R+/32, Korg i3 (2020 Version), (2) Korg Kross 1-61, (2) Korg Kross 1-88, Korg Minilogue XD, Korg Minilogue XD Module, Korg M50-61, Korg PA700, Korg X5DR, Korg Z3, Kurzweil SP1, Lowrey EZP3 (bascially a Kawai), Roland D-05, Roland E-09, Waldorf Streichfett, Yamaha Reface CP, Yamaha Reface CS, Yamaha Reface DX, Yamaha Reface YC


Last edited by Musicwithharry on Sun Apr 04, 2021 6:53 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Musicwithharry
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Joined: 23 Mar 2012
Posts: 676
Location: Anamosa, IA

PostPosted: Sun Apr 04, 2021 5:35 pm    Post subject: Re: Sequencer in Kross 2 vs Kronos / Nautilus sequencer Reply with quote

hans1966 wrote:
Hi Guys, I was wondering if there are relevant differences between Kross 2 and Kronos / Nautilus, in sequencer mode?

I'm asking because I'd like to create a song from scratch in sequencer mode, recording track by track and then assigning independent effects to each channel.

is this possible on the Kross 2, or is it exclusive to the higher models.

Another question: is there any chance they could increase the memory expansion from 128MB to 512MB in an upcoming software update?

Thanks in advance for your answers

Greetings.


The MIDI sequencer between the different keyboards are similar, but access and navigation while in sequencer mode are much different. This is due to the Nautilus and Kronos having touch screens and the Kross lack this.

You can still copy tracks, transpose tracks, and do just about everything else, with all three units.

The EFX structure between the Nautilus and Kronos are almost indentical, I believe. The EFX structure on the Kross is different because it only allows for up to 5 IFX to be used (versus the 12 or 16 on the Nautilus/Kronos - I am not sure if they offer 12 or 16 IFX). There is an MFX section on them as well, but the availability of FX is less on the Kross than the other two.

An example would be that you cannot use Reverb and Delay in MFX 1 and 2, respectively. You can on the others. The EFX section is more limited on the Kross.

With that said, you still have a lot of variation in the EFX section on the Kross and you can get great results from it, if you plan strategically.

You can create sequences in the Kross just as easily as you can in the others - maybe even more easily. Recording from a Program or a Combi is as easy as simply hitting the record button and it automatically sets up the sequencer for you. If you choose to start one from scratch, you can select from different templates for different styles of music and it will also set up the EFX for you, I believe.

When I go into the Kross to record, I usually just hit the record button, and start playing. When I am finished, I can edit the track, fix any wrong notes, and simply add another track(s) until I am done. It is really simple.

You can get great results from using the Kross sequencer. Once you are able to navigate around it pretty well, you will not have any problems. What can get a bit tedious is all of the button presses and HOW the sequencer works with those button presses. The touch screen on the Krome, Nautilus, and Kronos make things much easier. With that said, one has to keep in mind that the Kross is an entry-level offering, and as such, it will not offer all of the ease of use as the higher models do.

With regard to increasing the sample memory, it may be more than simply offering a software update. They may actually have to add more memory to the Kross to increase it. I am not privy to the actual amount of total system memory on the Kross, but I am sure that they do not have 1Gb in there and they are simply limiting the amount of user space via software programming. It may require installation of new memory chips to increase that, and then they would have to program the OS to access that extra memory, etc...

Grace,
Harry
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Alesis Vortex Keytar, Alesis QS6.2, Alesis QSR, Alesis SR-16, Behringer Deepmind-12, Ensoniq Avista 7600, Ensoniq VFX, Ensoniq VFX-SD, Ensoniq SQ1+, (2) Ensoniq SQ-R+/32, Korg i3 (2020 Version), (2) Korg Kross 1-61, (2) Korg Kross 1-88, Korg Minilogue XD, Korg Minilogue XD Module, Korg M50-61, Korg PA700, Korg X5DR, Korg Z3, Kurzweil SP1, Lowrey EZP3 (bascially a Kawai), Roland D-05, Roland E-09, Waldorf Streichfett, Yamaha Reface CP, Yamaha Reface CS, Yamaha Reface DX, Yamaha Reface YC
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hans1966
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Joined: 07 Nov 2015
Posts: 187
Location: Cali- Colombia

PostPosted: Sun Apr 04, 2021 6:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thank you very much Koekepan, and Harry for your detailed responses.

Now I know I was not wrong when choosing Kross 2, it is definitely a great machine for the price it is worth.

Make the decision to get a second keyboard (in this case Kross 2) for several reasons:

1. accompany my current arranger keyboard
2. Additional Sound Banks
3. MIDI configuration between both devices, for live performances, and last but not least.
4. use both keyboards, to create a kind of small professional recording studio.

now comes my questions:

How can I configure both devices to create a multiple MIDI / AUDIO recording?

How can I configure both keyboards, so that they reproduce specific sounds of each one, and be able to make an audio recording in good conditions?

The above questions are because both devices record AUDIO and MIDI (SX900 records WAV and MP 3, KROSS 2 WAV)

my last question about it (so as not to bother my friends anymore)

Is it possible to record AUDIO, from both sources in a single device (SX900, or KROSS 2) without resorting to external software?

In case it is not possible to do this on any of the devices mentioned above, the other alternative I have on hand is the Audacity software.

I have no experience in programming and device configuration MIDI / AUDIO, please excuse me if I ask too many questions and maybe a little silly.

I really appreciate the guidance you can give me in this regard.


Greetings
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Hans

Korg Kross 2 - Yamaha PSR-SX900
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Koekepan
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Joined: 27 Sep 2016
Posts: 473

PostPosted: Mon Apr 05, 2021 3:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

First question:

The easiest would be to pick one keyboard to be the master, and use its sequencer to drive the other. The Kross can certainly do this, but if you prefer the arranger process, where you pick chords and styles, you should still be able to use the Kross as an external instrument on whichever MIDI channels you like. On the other hand, the Kross is fully capable of driving 16 channels of MIDI.

I can't speak for your arranger, but on the Kross you simply configure for each channel, whether it is sending MIDI out, and if it's producing the sound internally, what sound it should use. It's that simple. As for audio recording, you can import audio to the Kross through its inputs, and I think(?) that you can record those simultaneously with the internal synthesis engine. If not, you could certainly drive external synthesis and coordinate recording with the sequencer's timing by using the option to start recording with the sequencer start. That way you should be able to overdub with perfect synchronisation.

Final question: I do think so, but I've never done it (I use external recording equipment if I'm not doing everything inside the Kross).

I imagine that your arranger should be able to record external and internal sound sources simultaneously.
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Musicwithharry
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Joined: 23 Mar 2012
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Location: Anamosa, IA

PostPosted: Mon Apr 05, 2021 4:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

hans1966 wrote:
1. accompany my current arranger keyboard


If both have 5-pin MIDI jacks, then they will talk to each other.


hans1966 wrote:
2. Additional Sound Banks


I am not sure how many sound packs are available for the Yamaha arranger, but you can add them when they are available (remaining space considerations being observed).

For the Kross 2, there are at least two available right now that you can load into memory. If you browse Korg's website for the Kross 2, they will link to those. You can also program your own sounds and they are saved in the User category (unless you choose to overwrite what is already there, but that requires disabling the Memory Protect feature for that). [/quote]

hans1966 wrote:
3. MIDI configuration between both devices, for live performances...


You will be able to do this. I recomment either setting up Combis or Sequence templates (sequences without note data) on the Kross 2 and control everything from the Yamaha arranger.

hans1966 wrote:
4. use both keyboards, to create a kind of small professional recording studio.


You can certainly do this as well, and plug the output from one keyboard into the input of the other keyboard. The Kross 2 has a 1/8" input jack and the Yamaha offers the same. My recommendation is to actually buy a small mixer and plug the outputs from both keyboards into that and then either use your computer to record the audio, or a standalone audio recording device. If this is not an option, then I would certainly take the outputs from the Kross 2 and go into the Aux In on the Yamaha arranger. Do not use the headphone jack on the Kross 2, use the line outputs with a stereo "Y-cable". Then, adjust the volume on the Kross 2 (probably max volume) and then adjust the input volume on the Yamaha arranger (if it has one).

hans1966 wrote:
How can I configure both devices to create a multiple MIDI / AUDIO recording?


You would use the Yamaha arranger as the main unit and use the Kross 2 as the 'sound layer'. Create Combis/Sequence Templates on the Kross 2 that line up with what you are doing on the Yamaha. It takes a bit of programming, but it will work.

hans1966 wrote:
How can I configure both keyboards, so that they reproduce specific sounds of each one, and be able to make an audio recording in good conditions?


Usually the Aux or Mic input on any of these boards are passed through the audio chain so they will be recorded by the internal audio player. Simply set up the audio recorder on the Yamaha and it should record whatever the Yamaha sequencer is triggering on the Kross 2.

hans1966 wrote:
The above questions are because both devices record AUDIO and MIDI (SX900 records WAV and MP 3, KROSS 2 WAV)
. Usually with WAV recording, either machine would be fine, but I would probably record into the Yamaha, since it may be your 'controller' and 'master sequencer' for your music. It just makes things easier.

hans1966 wrote:
Is it possible to record AUDIO, from both sources in a single device (SX900, or KROSS 2) without resorting to external software?


You should be able to with no problems at all, to record on the keyboard. Depending on what you are recording, you may find that going to a computer DAW program or a standalone audio recorder may give you better results. Trial and error will help determine this for you.

hans1966 wrote:
In case it is not possible to do this on any of the devices mentioned above, the other alternative I have on hand is the Audacity software.


I still use Audacity software to modify/manipulate audio files and get them ready for mastering or for final product before releasing an album. It is a powerful, and free, software to use. I also use Reaper for the multitrack mixing that I do. It too is free and is much more powerful than Audacity. I have grown accustomed to it and it works very well.

hans1966 wrote:
I have no experience in programming and device configuration MIDI / AUDIO, please excuse me if I ask too many questions and maybe a little silly.


When setting up MIDI, make sure that the transmit and receive channels are the same for each track.

For example, if you want the Yamaha to play the piano on MIDI Channel 1, and you want the Kross 2 to play strings on that same channel, then set up the Combi/Sequence Template on the Kross 2 to have the strings on track 1 and that it receives on MIDI Channel 1. Do this for every track that you want to layer. If you want strings and choir coming from the Kross 2, then track 1 AND track 2 would receive on MIDI Channel 1 from the Yamaha arranger. It sounds harder than it really is when reading it.

With regard to audio recording, as long as you plug one into the other through the input or AUX jack, the recorder on the recording device should pick it up. Again, if you are going to use the Yamaha as the recorder, then plug the Kross 2 into that for it to work. You may have to choose the Aux In instead of the Mic In in the software, but it should be pretty straightforward.

As you can tell from my signature, I have A LOT of synths and such. I have different designated setups and they do different things.

For example, my live rig for the band I play in consists of 5+ different keyboards. Usually, I use the Kross 1-88, Kross 1-61, Waldorf Streichfett, Yamaha Reface DX, Reface CP, Reface CS, Reface YC, Ensoniq SQ1+, Behringer Deepmind-12 and Korg Minilogues XD and XD Module. I MIDI everything to the Main Kross 1-88 except the Minilogues, the Reface YC and CS, and Deepmind-12 (these are palyed live by themselves). I also have a Kurzweil 88-key unit that I am integrating to take the place of the Kross 1-88.

I also have a studio rig, consisting of two more Korg Kross 1 boards, and lots of rack synths. I can also plug in the Reface units, the Waldorf, and whatever else I need.

I also have another live rig for my duo and for my solo shows. It consists of the Korg PA700, Korg M50 and Alesis SR-16 Drum Machine. I MIDI to the drum machine to layer drum sounds with the drums on the PA700. I use the M50 mainly as a lead keyboard for guitar leads and such, but I am considering using it as a sound layering addition to the PA700 (which plays its internal sounds). Basically, the PA700 would control everything via MIDI and I can still play lead sounds on the M50.

I used to hook up the Alesis Drum machine and Korg M50 into the PA700, but found that it was better AND easier having an external mixer to plug all three into and THEN go into a PA system or an external audio recorder. I generally do not record to the DAW on my computer, but rather mix already created WAV files recorded on my Tascam DP32SD recorder. I find that workflow a bit better for me and it puts less strain on the computer for what I do. I record everything to the DP32SD and then, via USB, fly those tracks (which are WAV files) to the computer so I can mix them in Reaper.

You have a lot of options and that is why I gave examples of my different keyboard rigs and how I use them. At the end of the day, it is what is easier FOR YOU more than anything else.

I hope that my long-winded message here helps a bit Smile

Grace,
Harry
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Alesis Vortex Keytar, Alesis QS6.2, Alesis QSR, Alesis SR-16, Behringer Deepmind-12, Ensoniq Avista 7600, Ensoniq VFX, Ensoniq VFX-SD, Ensoniq SQ1+, (2) Ensoniq SQ-R+/32, Korg i3 (2020 Version), (2) Korg Kross 1-61, (2) Korg Kross 1-88, Korg Minilogue XD, Korg Minilogue XD Module, Korg M50-61, Korg PA700, Korg X5DR, Korg Z3, Kurzweil SP1, Lowrey EZP3 (bascially a Kawai), Roland D-05, Roland E-09, Waldorf Streichfett, Yamaha Reface CP, Yamaha Reface CS, Yamaha Reface DX, Yamaha Reface YC
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hans1966
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Joined: 07 Nov 2015
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Location: Cali- Colombia

PostPosted: Tue Apr 06, 2021 12:19 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

!Thank you very much Koekepan for your answer, much appreciated.

Hi Harry, I really appreciate your time to answer each of my questions in detail.

I'm going to take your advice into account, and I'm also going to spend time reading the manuals for both keyboards.

I will let you know any questions, for now I have to continue learning from each keyboard.

A hug!
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Korg Kross 2 - Yamaha PSR-SX900
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