Bass volume in manual bass

[Jo Martins]

Hello People,

I wonder if there´s any page or place that I overlooked where I can set the maximum level for the manual bass. I know that the volume goes right to 127 but seems that also CC11 and CC7 raises to top, increasing the volume way high. I´m looking to place the volume top around 100, like in the styles.

Any suggestion?

Thanks!

Jo Martins

[Dikikeys]

Does it matter if you CAN get it loud enough? Why are you fixated on 100? Remember, the volume is also determined by how HARD you play. If you don't play as hard as the style, you'll need more volume.

CC11 and CC7 are simply 'expression' and 'volume'. You cannot increase a Part's volume past what the volume is set to if maxed out at 127 (unless expression is set lower beforehand, like using a swell pedal and it be backed off).

Are you saying that your left hand, playing bass parts, isn't as loud as the style's bass?

Firstly, is it the same bass sound? Secondly, how hard do you play (try making a short sequence playing LH bass, and look at how high the average velocities are)?

I would suggest (if those velocities aren't that high), if you aren't getting as much bass from the LH as the style and you are already maxed out with volume (127), try changing the velocity curve for the MBASS Part to a curve that takes less force to get to higher velocities. Or even use a fixed velocity curve... after all, that's what organ players' pedals have had for the large part. Bass generally has far less dynamics than other parts, to be solid and support well.

But if your hand strength is weak, try setting the bass part up so strength doesn't really come into it.

Last option... edit the sound itself, and raise the levels of the oscillator's outputs, or the envelope sustains, decrease envelope modulation of volume, etc.. The usual stuff. But try simply decreasing how much playing strength alters volume. That may be the simplest solution...

[siebenhirter]

Hello,
all solutions mentioned are useless because problem is unsolvable in Split mode of Korgs Pa-Styleplayer. That is because volume automatically is changed if one is using "Manual Bass".

Manual Bass and Automatic Bass of Styleplayer both are using the same track, so sound (also eq-, effect-settings etc) of Manual Bass and Style Bass are always the same, not possible to set separately.

If one change from Manual Bass to Automatic Bass, volume of this track is set to volume of style-setting - if you change from Automatic Bass to Manual Bass volume of that track is set to 127 (maximum). So cc#07 depends of Manual/AutomaticBass.

CC#11 (expression) of Bass Track is set to 127 by default, but one can use (extern/intern) controller to set cc#11 to values between 0 and 127 - this values do not change if you change between Manual and Automatic Bass.
*
A solution is not to use "Split" and also to renounce "Manual Bass", but to do that with UpperTracksKey and VelocityRange. Define your split with TopKey and BottomKey and use whatever bass sound you want for left hand, set its equalizer, volume, effects etc - same you can do with TopVelocity and BottomVelocity. It is a bass sound with its own track and settings (maybe of Upper3) and does not depend of style-bass.

Maybe to use Upper1 and Upper2 for the right area of your keyboard (BottomKey=SplitPoint, TopKey=127) and use Upper3 for Left Hand (BottomKey=0, TopKey=SplitPoint -1). You can not use Lower, because one do not use Split (it is possible also to use but little bit tricky with loopback lower track events).

To save Non-split-settings for styleplay of that quasi "ManualBass" and settings of bass track (mute/unmute, volume high/low) of your style you can use your STS but also user-performances of your Pa-Keyboard. Use strong Mono-Voices left for Manual Bass; Non-Mono-Voice for left-hand may be used for piano or whatever.

If one want to play Bass manually (with left hand of Upper3) AutomaticBass is to muteable manually or with assignable Switch Bass-Mute.

[Jo Martins]

Hi Dikikeys and siebenhirter

First of all, excuse my poor english. I´ll try to explain better:

I play mostly Latin music and my own stuff live. Both had in common that uses bass lines, some times in unison, sometimes, short grooves that I prefer to do live, spontaneous kicks, breaks, many improvised variations just to give "flavor".

The problem is that when I press the "manual bass" button, the bass volume raises too much, even surpassing the upper sounds or drums volume!! and I had all my tracks well balanced, and usually have the bass track between 100 and 110, main slider upper tracks/accomp in the middle. In Style mode all is correctly balanced but after pressing the manual bass button, the bass raises the volume to the top, and no, even playing it very gently it is still too loud.

After leaving "manual bass", everything returns to previous/normal volumes.

No, the bass sound doesn't change after pressing manual bass. Is the same in the style

A program with bass in lower zone is totally unpractical (already tried that)

So,

Is there any page in the PA OS where you can SET the manual bass volume to a value lower than 127?

Thanks all for your patience!

Kind Regards,
Jo Martins

[siebenhirter]

Is there any page in the PA OS where you can SET the manual bass volume to a value lower than 127?

No, does not exist - each time playing a style you push button "Manual bass" volume of manuals bass is set to 127 (maximum).

Sometime if you prefer playing bass live do not use "Manual bass" und "Split". Better generate split settings for Realtimetracks Upper1,2,3 with UpperTrackKeys and use sound of Upper3 for Manual Bass. Save this setting in an STS or as Performance and each time instead using "Manual Bass" use this STS.
Set Upper3 to Mono (in Track controls), set TopKey to B3 and BottomKey to C-1 (Menue KeyboardEnsemble / UpperTracksKey / KeyVelocity).
Set Upper2/Upper1 to TopKey = G9 and BottomKey = C4 (to ge keyboard split manually).
To prevent double-bass use this setting with bass volume slider = zero or Bass Track = mute or MemoryButton = off.

I do not think using such a program with bass in lower zone is unpractical if settings are personalized in right manner (Mono, Key Settings, Volume etc) - also "Manual Bass" is using such programs, but always automatically is set to maximum volume.

[Dikikeys]

Is there a way to set an expression pedal to affect ONLY the MBASS Part?

If so, when you enable the MBASS Part, and the expression pedal is backed off, would that get the played bass part in balance with the others? Or would an expression pedal bring down the ABASS part too?

Korg certainly seem to have overcomplicated a simple need, here... Why don't they simply have an MBASS part totally separate from the ABASS one? What advantage is there to what they do have?

[karmathanever]

Note: When you press the MANUAL BASS button, the Bass track
volume is automatically set to its maximum value. The volume is
automatically set back to the original value when the MANUAL
BASS button is deactivated.

NOW THIS REALLY PUZZLES ME!!!!!
On my PA3X the bass volume remains at the same level and DOES NOT jump to 127.
Did this get secretly changed in an update?

EDIT: Just tried this on my PA3X - tried 10 different styles - every time I press "Manual Bass" the bass volume is unchanged - bear in mind that if the style you are playing has the bass track recorded with low velocities then you need to match that when you switch to manual bass - SO despite the manual - my bass volumes do not change. (I am on OS 1.63)

????????????????????????????????????????????????????

(Following Diki's comment, you can't do this within Korg pedal assignment but I am pretty sure you could use a MIDI expression pedal successfully (like Behringer FCB1010) - I've used it to control UPPER 1 & 2 volumes separately - it has 2 expression pedals)

[venci69bg]

We want video proof !

[siebenhirter]

On my PA3X the bass volume remains at the same level and DOES NOT jump to 127. Did this get secretly changed in an update?

You can not see that jump to 127 looking normal view that only shows grouped Style tracks. But look to Style tracks view. It shows the volume of separate style tracks - display of "Bass" will changes volume to 127 if you push button "Manual bass" and go back to previous volume of bass if you push button again to deactivate Manual bass.

[Vex]

Actually, there IS A CATCH with this dumb Manual bass issue.

You must set arranger bass in every style you want to play bass manually to value 127.

And in every style with that setup you must go to Mixer (Arranger part ,with trk.select button) and go to EQ CONTROL. And there set BASS TRACK to match with style mix : Default value is 99 ,and here change the value to set desired velocity for arranger bass and manual . How you set parameter here, with that amount will play "both" basses. Of course,you have to write these styles with this setup.

Now press manual bass ih that styles and you'll see that arranger bass and manual bass have the same velocity


I'll hope that you understand this? It's easy

Cheers