Midrange - lack of support - forgotten again for a NEXT YEAR

[siebenhirter]

Hello,
my favorite keyboard would be a Korg Pa1000, if finally Korg would fix the missing or faulty features with an update, so that it would offer the same comfortable styleplay functionality as its predecessor (ie Pa800/500).

Songbook no longer is suitable for a demanding StylePlay because only can play one single style without interruption.

That is because every change of Songbook entry automatically will load KbdSet#1. While a style is running that cause an ugly, rumpling interruption of the realtime tracks - this procedure of automatically loading KbdSet#1 can not be prevented with StyleToKbdSet.

With the Pa4x this has been resolved by subsequently installing an OS-update with the "Lock KeyboardSet" function, so that the keyboard sets # 1-4 are not loaded when changing style or Sb-Entry - why we do not get that for Pa1000?
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Next one - only with the Pa4x the missing "Fill-Mode" has been resolved by subsequently installing an OS-update - why we do not get that for Pa1000?
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Next one - why missing Fill-buttons not will be re-implemented for the Pa1000 at least with an assignable function?
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Could it be that the support for users of midrange models for Korg is meaningless or has just forgotten about it, just as some functions for the Pa1000 were forgotten?

Korg should be ashamed of the lack of support for midrange models and finally should get active - there reallly was time enough meanwhile!

HAPPY next NEW YEAR

[keyboardbill]

Thank you for your comments.

I am considering the purchase of a PA1000 and was not aware of these issues. I preform a few times a month - before COVID19 - and hope to get back to the routine soon. Since I'm not familiar with the PA1000, what problems do this issues present if I'm performing in public?

DonM, have you encountered these issues?

Bill

[DonM]

Thank you for your comments.

I am considering the purchase of a PA1000 and was not aware of these issues. I preform a few times a month - before COVID19 - and hope to get back to the routine soon. Since I'm not familiar with the PA1000, what problems do this issues present if I'm performing in public?

DonM, have you encountered these issues?

Bill

I am certain they exist, but they have not presented any problems for me in the way I use the arranger. Each of us has never needs, expectations and desires.
My main wish would be for support of the EC5 pedal board, or for an additional pedal input or two. I will most likely find a third-party midi foot controller to help in this regard. Not urgent, but something I want to address.
Another issue, that extends to all Korg arrangers, is the abrupt endings on some of the styles. Some of them just STOP, with no sustain of any kind. Again, you can work around these, or edit them, but you shouldn't have to do that.
I find the good points far out weigh the drawbacks, but of course hope Korg can address everything that is needed for us to get the most of the arranger.

[siebenhirter]

... DonM, have you encountered these issues? ...

If you have never heared about functions for demanding use of the StylePlayer, you will not notice the omitted functions in the last models (Pa1000) and will not be missing either. So I think also DonM never has encountered such issues with the style player.

But if one has used the StylePlay functions of a predecessor (Pa3x / 800/500) sensibly, these functions are missed - such as the Velocity Controls of the StylePreferences, which I haven't mentioned yet in my posting (but also is annoying).

Velocity controls can no longer be used variably in the last models because they can only be saved globally. This means that Styles no longer can be controlled by different Velocity-Controls like before. Now you are bound to this single setting of the globals with all styles and all style elements. It can only be changed if setting in the globals is changed.
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For the preferred use of a Pa keyboard as a StylePlayer with variable functions, the last Pa series (Pa1000) remains a step backwards. One would have hoped for an extended functionality or at least an OS update in this area, which would at least restore the functionality that we had previously with the StylePlayer.

And unfortunately it doesn't look like Korg has any interest in equipping the StylePlayer with the functionality it was used to before or in expanding its functionality.
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PS: The songbook also is poorly suited for the StylePlayer. You cannot even switch to the next entry with the current keyboard set in a running style, but are always forced to accept one of the KbdSets (#1-4) saved in the next style. Korg has known this problem for over three years!

[DonM]

... DonM, have you encountered these issues? ...

If you have never heared about functions for demanding use of the StylePlayer, you will not notice the omitted functions in the last models (Pa1000) and will not be missing either. So I think also DonM never has encountered such issues with the style player.

But if one has used the StylePlay functions of a predecessor (Pa3x / 800/500) sensibly, these functions are missed - such as the Velocity Controls of the StylePreferences, which I haven't mentioned yet in my posting (but also is annoying).

Velocity controls can no longer be used variably in the last models because they can only be saved globally. This means that Styles no longer can be controlled by different Velocity-Controls like before. Now you are bound to this single setting of the globals with all styles and all style elements. It can only be changed if setting in the globals is changed.
*
For the preferred use of a Pa keyboard as a StylePlayer with variable functions, the last Pa series (Pa1000) remains a step backwards. One would have hoped for an extended functionality or at least an OS update in this area, which would at least restore the functionality that we had previously with the StylePlayer.

And unfortunately it doesn't look like Korg has any interest in equipping the StylePlayer with the functionality it was used to before or in expanding its functionality.
*
PS: The songbook also is poorly suited for the StylePlayer. You cannot even switch to the next entry with the current keyboard set in a running style, but are always forced to accept one of the KbdSets (#1-4) saved in the next style. Korg has known this problem for over three years!

I play almost exclusively using styles and from my Songbook entries. I have had PA80, 800, 900, 3X and 4X and 1000. For whatever reason, I never used the velocity controls and I have probably missed out on a great feature.
I fully agree that we should have more control over the KeySets in the Songbook. I probably don't miss this as much as some, because I have my favorite sounds saved in the User banks.
Perhaps the virus has slowed Korg down on some of the support we need?

[Biggles]

You have been going on about these issues you have for years.

In your post you have explained the features you would like to have restored in such a manner that I, someone with no experience of the prior models, now fully understands and I can appreciate your concerns.

Thankyou for such a well put together explanation.

Good luck in getting Korg to listen and respond, hopefully Paulo from Korg will read this thread and take the matter forward.

I would totally agree that Korg are not giving the OS support to 1000/700 owners that the owners deserve.

In March 2021 it will be two years since OS Next arrived for the PA4X and nothing at all of any added value since then has been forthcoming for the 1000/700 models.

Korg have released new equipment in 2020 and hints have been stated on various online websites by Korg staff that 2021 is going to be an exciting year for Korg.

Keeping my fingers crossed that we all will be happy Korgies this year.

[siebenhirter]

.. I never used the velocity controls ..

That is exactly what I meant with "never heared about functions for demanding use of a StylePlayer". But these were sophisticated functions of Pa-Keyboards, which with their StylePlayer had been by far superior to the competitors for decades.

One example of this are the Cue mode parameters that let decide how the current StyleElement (Variation, Fill-In) will enter after it has been selected (immediate, next measure, current measure, first measure). Since decades no user - with a another arranger than Korg - ever has heared what is a Cue-Mode or a Fill-Mode and even less how to control styles with such unknowns.

Looking at the fill mode with its parameters to set a Variation to be automatically selected at the end of avaible Fills. That may be individual direct selected next variation or alternatively a variation down, a variation up, variation decremented, variation incremented etc. Additional Fill Mode could be selected to be locked, not to be changed when selecting a different KbdSet (Performance) or Style.

With the Pa1000 some of the missing fill buttons not even with an additional setting of assignable switches was implemented (also no Fill-Mode, no LockKbdSet as done with Pa4x-update).

It really is annoying, if you will not find the proven functions on Pa1000 we already had on Pa3x/800/500. With missing functions the StylePlayer of the Pa1000 no longer outperforms the competition. Its superiority disappears, because the competition has not neglected the further development of their StylePlay functions.

Now it is hard to call a Pa1000 your favorite arranger. Even if other features are excellent, an OS update for the StylePlayer is more than overdue.

To implement Fill-Mode and Lock-KeyboardSet (as with the Pa4x retrospectively) certainly does not require much effort for an update.
The same applies to the StyleToKbdSet function, in order not to automatically load KbdSet # 1 with the songbook when selecting the next entry with a continuous running style.

Also it can be no problem to implement the assignable switches with the functions Fill-In (1-4) and a toggle function for "OriginalStyleSound", in order to be able to switch the sounds of the style tracks with direct access, because that is a deficiency for decades.

[Aripearlmusic]

see page 61 in the manual to configure the fill mode

[siebenhirter]

.. see page 61 in the manual to configure the fill mode..

Nice hint, but inappropriate. On page 61 the fill mode is not described, but only which parameters can be selected for auto fill.

Fill mode, as it had been implemented with its functions in predecessors for decades, was left out (forgotten?) in the last Pa4x / 1000/700 models. Only with the Pa4x it was subsequently submitted with an OS update.
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Parameters of FillMode allow for automatically choosing a Variation at the end of each Fill, after having pressed one of the FILL or BREAK buttons. That is possible in different ways (direct, up/down, inc/dec ..) and can be save to Style Settings or SongBook Entrys, so you can have a different Fill Mode configuration for each Style or SongBook entry.

Read in the Pa4x manual on page 225 what an an excellent tool that the FILL MODE is for controlling a sequence, we previously had for decades in the predecessors (Pa4x/800/500) and was re-implementet only in an OS-update for Pa4x - but still is missing in Pa1000/700.

The same applies to "Lock KbdSet" with which - at least in the Pa4x - the SB malfunction of StyleToKbdSet was compressed with an OS update - also this update still is missing in the Pa1000 / 700.

[siebenhirter]

... hints have been stated on various online websites by Korg staff that 2021 is going to be an exciting year for Korg ..

... this is what every non-binding advertising message promises.

New equipment, which is brought onto the market with limited and missing functions and thus does not achieve the functionality of its predecessor, is a retrograde development, as has been evident for years with Korg's style player functions in the arranger model series.

As long as this development continues and the current series is not brought back to the usual functionality through updates, the evidence of an exciting year remains an unbelievable diversionary maneuver.

[Biggles]

... hints have been stated on various online websites by Korg staff that 2021 is going to be an exciting year for Korg ..

... this is what every non-binding advertising message promises.

New equipment, which is brought onto the market with limited and missing functions and thus does not achieve the functionality of its predecessor, is a retrograde development, as has been evident for years with Korg's style player functions in the arranger model series.

As long as this development continues and the current series is not brought back to the usual functionality through updates, the evidence of an exciting year remains an unbelievable diversionary maneuver.

We can but hope.

[siebenhirter]

.. We can but hope ...

I think we can not!

As I am particularly annoyed by the lack of support in the midrange area I got following mail from Korg Support Germany:

"Du weißt, daß ich Deiner Meinung bin, wenn es darum geht, die STYLE TO KBD SET Funktion 1:1 für die Style und SongBook Einträge gleich zu setzen, also diese Funktion mit den KBD SETs der SB-Einträge gleichzusetzen.
Ich hatte Dir ja schon mitgeteilt, daß dies aber seitens des Herstellers KORG ITALY so gewollt war. Soweit mir bekannt, hat unser Produkt-Manager, Dirk Lindemann, in der Angelegenheit bereits mit den Kollegen der KORG Entwicklung diskutiert. Ob unserem Wunsch jedoch stattgegeben wird und eventuell noch mit einem Update bei den aktuellen Modellen eingeführt wird, ist wohl eher unwahrscheinlich. Ich kann Dir daher keine Versprechungen machen.
Was ich aber schon sagen kann ist, daß die Nachfolgemodelle aller Wahrscheinlichkeit nach eine veränderte, bzw. ergänzende und komfortabler Bedienlogik haben werden, womit dann das Problem nicht mehr relevant sein wird."

In summary this text translated means, that the request to change certain functions according to customer requirements was accepted by Korg Germany and deposited with Korg Italy, but it seems unlikely that the current model will receive a corresponding update. However, it would be unlikely that the request will be granted and that an update will be introduced for the current model.
But most likely the successor models will be equipped with a comfortable operating logic, with which the problems I have complained about will no longer be relevant.

This is really unsatisfactory news, because it is just as likely that this process will be repeated with the successor model. Again, complained about inadequacies that are hidden in such a way as not to be noticed immediately before the purchase, are delayed until you can talk your way around the successor model.

Why doesn't Korg finally get an update for the Pa1000, as was submitted for the inadequacies of the Pa4x?
Did not you get infos from Korg Germany about this?
It is worthless to deposit unadequacies in a timely manner, which may only be realized after five years and only in subsequent models!
That is disregard for the customer!
Why is this being postponed to the successor model?

Hopefully someone from Korg who is competent is reading this, because I think the arguments of Korg Germany are ridiculous - it's a shame to expect support there!

At least it is unbelievable that Korg would have any interest in customer loyalty, because otherwise a different behavior would be expected.